Tuesday, December 30, 2014

The UnChristian Westboro Baptist Church Hates An Herb As The Pope Wants

As with any of these satanically infiltrated Churches that misread Revelations 22 and ignore Genesis 1:29, they never seem to have anything to say against petrochemical pharmaceuticals, nor about the numerous chemicals being placed as food additives through the USDA-FDA with the assistance of entities as the Washington, D.C. law firm of Covington & Burling
 John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believith in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Compare John 3:16 with the Westboro Baptist Church website: http://www.godhatestheworld.com/

They claim that God hates nations because some people are homosexuals, and they support making homosexuality a Capital Crime, never mind the Biblical commandment that thall shall not kill.

Shirley Phelps apparently supports the PAPAL position on Marijuana

Westboro Baptist Church supports the same position taken by Pope Francis S.J.

Genesis 1:12 - And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
Genesis 1:29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 

Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Psalms 104:14-15 - He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
Marisol Therapeutics a/k/a Weed Store :( in Pueblo West, CO    December 29, 2014  12:35 PM - 1:05 PM 
Westboro Baptist Church will picket Marisol Therapeutics (WHAT?! look at fluffy words to obfuscate that you sell POT, a mind altering drug), to warn the living - it is a most dire warning ... GOD HATES YOUR SORCERIES!

And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it.  Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children  But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments.  For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me.  Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know.  Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail.  Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.  Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.  Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured, even thy merchants, from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee.  (Isa. 27:7-15) 

Sorceries - pharmakeia far-mak-i?-ah sorcery witchcraft 1; 3

1) the use or the administering of drugs

2) poisoning

3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

4) metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry
Do you see yourselves in that promised coming destruction foolish USA?
Doomed USA leads the world in your illegal drug trade. As if that were not bad enough, now the government sanctions those drugs. You bring down the wrath of God upon you! God Almighty will get his honor in your destruction! Westboro Baptist Church rejoices at the promised coming full, complete, final destruction! God is true and every man a liar. The mouth of the Lord has spoken of this event, so it WILL be!


P.S.  God will not now, NEVER HAS and NEVER WILL tolerate Same-Sex Marriage.

Pueblo West Organics (a/k/a Weed Store :( in Pueblo West, CO    December 29, 2014  1:15 PM - 1:45 PM
Westboro Baptist Church will picket Pueblo West Organics, to warn the living - it is a most dire warning ... GOD HATES YOUR SORCERIES!
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. (Rev. 18:21-24) 

Sorceries - pharmakeia far-mak-i?-ah sorcery witchcraft 1; 3

1) the use or the administering of drugs

2) poisoning

3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

4) metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry
Do you see yourselves in that promised coming destruction foolish USA?
Doomed USA leads the world in your illegal drug trade. As if that were not bad enough, now the government sanctions those drugs. You bring down the wrath of God upon you! God Almighty will get his honor in your destruction! Westboro Baptist Church rejoices at the promised coming full, complete, final destruction! God is true and every man a liar. The mouth of the Lord has spoken of this event, so it WILL be!


P.S.  God will not now, NEVER HAS and NEVER WILL tolerate Same-Sex Marriage.

The WBC is not affiliated with any Baptist denomination. The Baptist World Alliance and the Southern Baptist Convention (the two largest Baptist denominations) have each denounced the WBC over the years.[10] The church describes itself as following Primitive Baptist and Calvinist principles.[11]

The Westboro Baptist Church considers membership in most religious groups, such as the Roman Catholic Church or Islam, as akin to devil worship, and states these other churches to be "Satanic frauds preaching Arminian lies".[84] The church defines itself as "Old School (or, Primitive) Baptist" and sees itself as defending the Five Points of Calvinism: total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints.[85] Rebecca Barrett-Fox, a professor at Arkansas State University who completed a dissertation on Westboro Baptist, has labelled it as "hyper-Calvinist".[86]
The Westboro Baptist Church adopts an interpretation that disregards Genesis and makes no sense without objective standards nor consistency.

Herbs INCLUDE drugs.  Drugs include healing.

'Sorcery' here is being presented as referring to pharmacy.  That word involves a refining or man made creation of drugs.

Sorcery itself refers specifically to satanic witchcraft, communion with demons.

Is taking aspirin, opium, Coca, Coffee, caffeine containing tea, and even many pharmaceuticals communion with demons?  Of course not.

Is taking Marijuana itself communion with demons. No.

Is taking psychedelics communion with demons.  No.  Except perhaps with some in extreme doses in some circumstances for some people with repressed inner demons.

Is heroin or cocaine?  Not in any doses that I am acquainted with though I have never injected any drug in my life finding that disgusting and unnatural.

Is taking a deliriant drug as Belladona communion with demons - quite possible.  Deliriant drugs are of a different class than psychedelics.

Is taking a synthetic pharmaceutical drug as PCP communion with demons -  most probably so to the degree of opening one up to demonic possession.

I believe so about what is essentially the shorter acting version of PCP- Ketamine:

From:  http://southmallblogger.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-angel-of-francesca-and-marialuisa.html

Is there a place for the use of ketamine in plastic and reconstructive Surgery...   Annals of Plastic Surgery.
Ketamine provides analgesia and amnesia.  In small to moderate doses, it always enables near-normal respiration and circulation.  Airway reflexes are unusually maintained, and nausea and vomiting are infrequent.
The primary disadvantage is that of occasional emergence delirium or psychosis.  Such phenomena are readily treatable with sedatives and tranquilizers.
This anesthetic agent offers significant advantages that seem to make it attractive for use in outpatient surgery.  However, inducing unconsciously by any means entails certain risks to life.  The practitioner who undertakes to use a general anesthetic agent in the office must be prepared to deal with any complications that could reasonably be expected to arise.  

Adequately trained and rehearsed personal must be in attendance.  Equipment to deal with cardiovascular and respiratory emergencies must be present and in good working order.  It is unrealistic to expect that disasters will happen only in someone else’s office.  On the inevitable day such a disaster occurs, the plastic surgeon who has been practicing anesthesia in the office must be prepared to answer to answer the questions of the lawyer of  the injured plaintiff regarding the plastic surgeon’s qualifications and expertise in anesthesiology.

Finally, it can reasonably  be expected that certain patients who have sought cosmetic surgery will eventually undergo psychiatric treatment.  At such a time the plastic surgeon must be prepared to give answers regarding his or her choice of a known compound in a patient who subsequently suffered emotional and social impairment.

Allan Van Poznak, M.D.
Joseph F. Artusio Jr. M.D.
The New York Hospital-Cornel Medical Center
525 E 68th St
New York, N.Y.  10021

Phencyclidine (ketamine) was introduced in the practice of anesthesia in 1968.  It represented a brilliant breakthrough, a new avenue in the treatment of pain.  Like any other pharmacological innovation, ketamine met with “pendulum behavior”: an initial period of enthusiasm for it was followed by a period of criticism and finally its settling into a proper position in the pharmacology of anesthesia.
At present, after extensive studies and clinical experience, there are still many problems and unanswered questions that make ketamine a drug of limited use in anesthesia.  We limit its use in children to brief diagnostic procedures or cases in which general anesthesia would be a traumatic experience due to lack of cooperation.
I cannot anticipate any valid use of ketamine for ambulatory surgery.  The unpredictable emergence from anesthesia makes it unsuitable for office procedures.  Dreams and hallucinations during and after surgery have been describes unpleasant or frightening by many patients.  Tachycardia and mild hypertension produced by ketamine limit the use of vascoconstrictions frequently associated with local anesthetics in ambulatory surgery.  And of course, adequate resuscitation equipment and personal have to be available with the use of ketamine.
In ambulatory surgery, unless we are dealing with uncontrollable children, I would still recommend conventional methods of analgesia until a better dissociative anesthetic is available.

Ennio Gallozzi
33 Parkway East
Yonkers, N.Y....
Ketamine is essentially short acting PCP- a drug associated with all sorts of strange behavior, if not outright demonic possession.
About PCP-Ketamine:
Regressive loops: A curious quirk of phencyclidine that I have seen a few times is its capacity to induce in certain people regressive loops. In this state people appear like typically regressed subjects in hypnotic sessions, but with the difference that they get caught in a particular vision or phrase, oscillating forwards and backwards seemingly trapped in that moment. I have never seen anyone harmed by this experience and the best thing is to let them go at it until they return to “normal” consciousness. One user of my acquaintance turns into a duck quite regularly on Dust. One can be having an apparently extremely complex and intelligent conversation with him only to have him punctuate the points with a couple of quacks. “Quack! Quack!” he goes quite seriously and to the issue. We just have to wait ‘til the duck goes away….
The Schizomimetic Effect
Anyone studying the lives of saints, prophets, mystics and seers will undoubtedly realize that the line between Cosmic or God-Consciousness, and full-blown schizophrenia is hard to define and yet unmistakably substantial. Both states can be traced to profound biochemical alterations and many of the apparent effects can be cross-identified but, from a subjective point of view and with few exceptions, God-consciousness is qualitatively wholly different from the trapped agonies of the schizophrenic.

What PCP can do, and probably more effectively that Acid ever did, is to yield an arena in which the user, through focused attention, can decide to explore states of expanded consciousness. (Actually Timothy Leary’s word, Contelligence, a word salad of consciousness and intelligence, is a far better metaphor for what it is that we are trying to expand.) Through this expanded contelligence the sensitive user will not only be required to cope with the ecstatic and rapturous aspects of God-consciousness but he must also be prepared to face all that is in our world.
With entheogens it is possible to envision these negative forces as mythological and sometimes demonic thought forms and beat them through courage and knowledge. (Interestingly enough, PCP is often called “Demon dope” on the street.)
This is an observed feature in the work of both Carlos Castaneda, who talks much about The Ally, and Dr. John Lilly, who has had more than one confrontation with the demons. In almost every account in the literature and thoughout my own experience, I have found that these demons are an illusion, a very solid one granted, that is fed by fear. This is both the accumulated fear of all who have empowered the “demonic” and the user’s own fear. However, it is a fear that can be “gotten on top of” and the demons turn quite unexpectedly into angels or guides who will transport the user to new levels of transcendent consciousness. Whether these forms have some sort of internal “objective reality,” since they have been experienced by so many, depends on one’s mindset, but the fact remains that they are there! I can only presume that they form some sort of barrier that exists to keep all but the bravest from breaking through. …
The Ketamine Molecule

Phencyclidine and Ketamine Hydrochloride are very closely related on a molecular level. Ketamine was developed during Vietnam as a quick and efficient battlefield anesthetic. It is still used as such in some medical contingencies, but in quantities about five times what you need to get high. Ketamine is like a courteous PCP. It comes on much cleaner and more pharmaceutical, but the essential similarities with the more sturdy phencyclidine are there. The optimum method for taking Ketamine is undoubtedly by intra-muscular injection, although it can be snorted. The i-m introduces two very different but equally interesting ways of dealing with the K high. Surrendering to it and sinking into the rush can provide an incredible intergalactic, space-traveling, out-of-the-body high, more vivid in my experience than any other comparable transcendogen, except Dust. The other option, that of keeping on top of the rush and allowing the drug to act like a rocket booster, provides a truly remarkable “open-eye” experience. Under these circumstances it is not unusual to have visitors from other levels and dimensions appearing within the “K space,” or the distinct impression that one has been transported to another dimension or planet.
Both applications seem important to a generation that will see the start of space migration as well as witnessing some of the first inter-species meetings.
PCP and the Future
Taking a wider view, the best, albeit fictional, analogue for PCP is the melange spice that permeates Frank Herbert’s DUNE quartet. Whereas Acid and Mescaline and the first generation transcendogens concentrate mainly on producing visual and spacial effects, PCP and Ketamine veer towards temporal distortions. This dilation and contraction of time raises some vital questions concerning the subjectivity of the time/space continuum and might possibly open the door to some rudimentary experiments in time travel.
The association of PCP with deathlike experiences undoubtedly relates to the inexperienced user’s attempts to cope with rapid ego loss. Once this is appreciated, breaking through the “skin” of ego-oriented reality into other realities becomes a much simpler and less scary operation.
It has been my observation that the use of both Ketamine and Phencyclidine will allow a much enhanced understanding of the potentialities of time travel and of fusing with undifferentiated consciousness forms. They will, in all probability, provide a meeting arena for inner-dimensional entities, spirit guides, extra-temporals and extraterrestrials, and can lead toward a reperception of the possibility of telepathy and teleportation. 

The first two letters are written by anesthesiologists: a class of physicians that starting in 1884, when the concentrated form of the drug as made commercially available, experimented with cocaine injected directly into nerves as a potential blocker of pain hence potentially encountering extreme levels of intoxication far greater than even smoking crack cocaine, definitively quite toxic-maniac and plausibly falling under a form of sorcery in given contexts.  Such experiences doubtlessly influenced some physicians to assume that cocaine was thereby intrinsically dangerous regardless of the dosing, despite thousands of years of usage of Coca leaves, and decades of Vn Mariani.

The apparent idea suggested by the above anesthesiologist with the Yonkers N.Y. address, of administering ketamine or phencyclidine (the latter which he incorrectly identifies as Ketamine- phencyclidine is PCP) for "uncontrollable children" would be an absolutely terrible means for childhood development: a form of child abuse likely to induce personality disorders of a so-treated person oscillating between a normal and socially impaired personalities the result of demonic possession that I would call that a form of sorcery.

Ketamine - a man-made chemical -- was initially synthesized in 1962 and approved by the FDA in 1970.

Ketamine (INN) is a medication used mainly for starting and maintaining anesthesia. Other uses include sedation in intensive care, as a pain killer, as treatment of bronchospasm, as a treatment for complex regional pain syndrome and as an antidepressant. It induces a trance like state while providing pain relief, sedation, and memory loss.[2] Heart function, breathing and airway reflexes generally remain functional.[2]

Common side effects include a number of psychological reactions as the medication wears.[3] This may include agitation, confusion and psychosis among others.[3][4] Elevated blood pressure and muscle tremors are relatively common, while low blood pressure and a decreasing in breathing is less so.[4][3] Spasms of the larynx may rarely occur.[3]

Pharmacologically, ketamine is classified as an NMDA receptor antagonist, but it also acts at numerous other sites (including opioid receptors and monoamine transporters).[5] Like other drugs in its class, such as phencyclidine (PCP), it is classified as a dissociative agent.[6]
Ketamine was first developed in 1962.[7] It is on the WHO Model List of Essential Medicines, a list of essential medicines that should be available in a health system.[8] Its hydrochloride salt is sold as Ketanest, Ketaset, and Ketalar. Its use as a recreational drug has resulted in several high-profile deaths.[9]
Ketamine was first developed[dubious ] by Craig Newlands of Wayne State University and subsequently synthesized in 1962 by Calvin Stevens, a Parke Davis consultant conducting research on alpha-hydroxyimine rearrangements.[74] [75] After promising preclinical research in animals, ketamine was introduced to testing in human prisoners in 1964.[75][76] These investigations demonstrated ketamine's short duration of action and reduced behavioral toxicity made it a favorable choice over PCP as a dissociative anesthetic.[77] Following FDA approval in 1970, ketamine anesthesia was first given to American soldiers during the Vietnam War.[78]

As such, it has enjoyed a medical acceptance from a profession indoctrinated during the 1900s to confuse dilute and ultra concentrated cocaine and opiates, while trusting man made chemicals with relatively little history given a free pass by the drug war.
Ketamine is currently a 'controlled substance'- but only becoming so years after Opium, Coca, cocaine and Marijuana; and is at a lower schedule suggesting that it is safer - a false assumption that should be guessed by the Controlled Substances Act treating Coca leaves and cocaine the same regardless of the drug diluteness-concentration factor.  From the wiki article:
The increase in illicit use prompted ketamine's placement in Schedule III of the United States Controlled Substance Act in August 1999.[84]

In the United Kingdom, it became labeled a Class C drug on 1 January 2006.[71][85] On 10 December 2013 the UK Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) recommended that the government reclassify ketamine to become a Class B drug,[86] and on 12 February 2014 the Home Office announced they would follow this advice "in light of the evidence of chronic harms associated with ketamine use, including chronic bladder and other urinary tract damage".[87][88]

The UK Minister of State for Crime Prevention, Norman Baker, responding to the ACMD's advice, said the issue of its recheduling for medical and veterinary would be addressed "separately to allow for a period of consultation."[87]

In Canada, ketamine is classified as a Schedule I narcotic, since 2005.[89] In Hong Kong, as of 2000, ketamine is regulated under Schedule 1 of Hong Kong Chapter 134 Dangerous Drugs Ordinance. It can only be used legally by health professionals, for university research purposes, or with a physician's prescription.[90][91] By 2002, ketamine was classified as class III in Taiwan; given the recent rise in prevalence in East Asia, however, rescheduling into class I or II is being considered.[71][92]

In December 2013, the government of India, in response to rising abuse and the use of ketamine as a date rape drug, has added it to Schedule X of the Drug and Cosmetics Act requiring a special license for sale and maintenance of records of all sales for two years.[93][94]
Given the reputation of its related drug PCP (Phencyclidine), and from the information in the above letters, Ketamine appears to be an extremely dangerous drug, at least in higher doses- creating situations that could plausibly be called forms of sorcery for involving possible demonic communion and possession.

Phencyclidine (a complex clip of the chemical name 1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine), commonly initialized as PCP and known colloquially as Angel Dust and many other names,[1] is a recreational dissociative drug. It was brought to market in the 1950s as an anesthetic pharmaceutical drug but was taken off the market in 1965 due to its dissociative hallucinogenic side effects.
In chemical structure, PCP is an arylcyclohexylamine derivative, and, in pharmacology, it is a member of the family of dissociative anesthetics. PCP works primarily as an NMDA receptor antagonist, which blocks the activity of the NMDA receptor and, like most anti-glutamatergic hallucinogens, is significantly more dangerous than other categories of hallucinogens.[2][3]

PCP is a Schedule II substance in the United States and its ACSCN is 7471.[35] Its manufacturing quota for 2014 was 19 grams.[36]

It is a Schedule I drug by the Controlled Drugs and Substances act in Canada, a List I drug of the Opium Law in the Netherlands, and a Class A substance in the United Kingdom.[citation needed]
Recreational doses of the drug also occasionally appear to induce a psychotic state that resembles a schizophrenic episode, sometimes lasting for months at a time.[44] Users generally report feeling detached from reality.[45]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sorcery: the use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits especially for divining.

Sorcery can be drugs, particularly some drugs, (indeed substances consumed within medicine and diet), and some dosing, but itself is not drugs.

Drugs can only be a possible means of sorcery.

As sorcery itself is not a drug, drugs can only be a means.  And as substances as PCP are scary, there's not much demand, with people instead choosing drugs without such characteristics.

Sorcery can be non-drug.  To wit: the mysticism of Jesuit founder Ignatius Loyola.   Such is achieved by days of fasting, and days of staring at images to induce a hypnosis, opening one self up to communion with demons and possible demonic demonic possession similar to PCP/Ketamine.

One can be placed in this sort of state remotely via voodoo-witchcraft.

Westboro is committing the error of somehow assuming that a PAPAL initiated 'war on some drugs' somehow represents truth.

It claims to be Protestant.

Yet it supports the Papal war on natural drugs that pose a market threat to Tobacco and petrochemical patent drugs.

One started in 1904, from a political campaign through the USDA-AMA and APhA and such figures as Harvey Washington Wiley to demonify generally dilute products made from un-patentable herbs, in-favor of patentable synthetics and Tobacco.

One started within weeks after the 2nd time the Vatican gave Coca popularizer and Vin Mariani creator Angelo Francois Mariani a medal as a Benefactor of Humanity, when there was what I believe a falling out between the Vatican and Mariani over their revealing their 20th century continuing counter reformation war against Germany and by extension Poland over French displeasure of losing Alsace Lorraine at the end of the Franco Prussian War.
Westboro states they are anti-Vatican.  Yet all they seem to target regarding the Vatican are the sex scandals.  It is as if they have sex on their minds too much.

Westboro disregards basic logic, including the importance of not only the substance but of dosage contrary to the Bible which does allude to such with its passages against drunkenness.

It thus supports a PAPIST agenda.  One of lying and stealing -- drug arrests, seizures and prosecutions are stealing -- violation the 10 commandments, with its enshrinement of the drug war.

Westboro is crypto-papist.

Of course it has nothing to say about Rome's religious geopolitics, nor the 20th century continuing counter reformation under Wlodimir Ledochowski. 
Given their condemnation of 'pharmakeia' what does Westboro say about the rejection of God given herbal medicine in favor of petro chemical pharmaceuticals?  Nor what about the mass of food additives and GMOs (the latter which groups as the AMA oppose labeling)- facilitated by such entities as Covington & Burling and the U.S. FDA?

Westboro 'Baptist' stands as testimony of the Romish corruption of what calls itself 'Christianity'.

 Westboro 'Baptist' Protesters - December 29, 2014

 Counter Protesters - December 29, 2014

 Counter Protesters - December 29, 2014



Monday, December 29, 2014

In Conquistador Ruled Ecuador

Human rights

UN’s Human Rights Council’s (HRC) Universal Periodic Review (UPR) has treated the restrictions on freedom of expression and efforts to control NGOs and recommended that Ecuador should stop the criminal sanctions for the expression of opinions, and delay in implementing judicial reforms. Ecuador rejected the recommendation on decriminalization of libel.[20]

According to Human Rights Watch (HRW) President Correa has intimidated journalists and subjected them to "public denunciation and retaliatory litigation". The sentences to journalists have been years of imprisonment and millions of dollars of compensation, even though defendants have been pardoned.[20] Correa has stated he was only seeking a retraction for slanderous statements.[21]

According to HRW, Correa's government has weakened the freedom of press and independence of the judicial system. In Ecuador's current judicial system, judges are selected in a contest of merits, rather than government appointments. However, the process of selection has been criticized as biased and subjective. In particular, the final interview is said to be given "excessive weighing." Judges and prosecutors that have made decisions in favor of Correa in his lawsuits have received permanent posts, while others with better assessment grades have been rejected.[20][22]

The laws also forbid articles and media messages that could favor or disfavor some political message or candidate. In the first half of 2012, twenty private TV or radio stations were closed down.[20]
In July 2012 the officials warned the judges that they would be sanctioned and possibly dismissed if they allowed the citizens to appeal to the protection of their constitutional rights against the state.[20]
People engaging in public protests against environmental and other issues are prosecuted for "terrorism and sabotage", which may lead to an eight-year prison sentence.[20]
Human Rights Watch has been criticized for bias on its reports on Ecuador.[23]
José Isidro Tendetza Antún- found dead


 A dark shadow has been cast over the international climate talks in Lima, Peru – as the body of an indigenous leader opposed to a major mining project in Ecuador was recently found bound and buried. The Guardian reports that José Isidro Tendetza Antún, the former vice-president of the Shuar Federation of Zamora, had been missing since 28 November, after he was last seen heading to meet some people protesting against the Mirador copper and gold mine. After his son Jorge got a tip, his body was found in a grave marked “No Name,” with arms and legs tied by a blue rope. Tendetza was planning to attend the United Nations Climate Change Conference currently underway in Lima, Peru. ecuador, mine, mining, mirador, gold, copper, shuar, Tendetza, peru, lima, climate, change, conference The Guardian notes that Tendetza was offered bribes and had his crops burned in an effort to get him to leave the area. Domingo Ankuash, a Shuar leader added there were signs Tendetza was beaten and tortured. “His body was beaten, bones were broke,” Ankuash told The Guardian. “He had been tortured and he was thrown in the river. The mere fact that they buried him before telling us, the family, is suspicious.” Related: NASA discovers massive methane cloud over Southwest caused by coal mining The Shuar people are the original inhabitants of a large part of Southern Ecuador, and are Ecuador’s second-largest indigenous group. Tendetza was a major critic of the open pit Mirador copper and gold mine owned by Ecuacorriente, a company originally owned by Canadians that was later sold to Chinese conglomerate, CCRC-Tongguan Investment. According to the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities in Ecuador, the mine will devastate about 450,000 acres of Ecuadorian forest.

Saturday, December 20, 2014

NY Mayor DeBlasi- Passing the Buck & Helping Target The Low Men on the Political Totem Pole

De Blasio and Sharpton

In one of his first speeches as mayor-elect, Bill de Blasio on Saturday did what any liberal politician in the city would do before taking office — he trucked up to Harlem to kiss Al Sharpton’s ring.

“Every year Reverend Sharpton is becoming stronger as a leader, is reaching farther as a leader,” de Blasio fawned at Sharpton’s National Action Network meeting. “You never have to wonder if he will remember where he came from, and he’ll be the first one up to stand up for justice. I gotta tell you guys, he’s a blessing for all of us. Let’s thank Reverend Sharpton.”

Blames the low men on the totem pole playing the race card

Ignores poor police training and poor laws via poor leadership and people who likewise give a free pass to the ruling parties by throwing their votes away upon the very political parties responsible for such poor leadership.

It was Democrat Party New York City Mayor Bloomberg that pushed the crackdown on single cigarette salesmen, and it was Bloomberg and or De Blasio, also a Democrat that called for such police intensification- never-mind any lack cost effectiveness.

It is NYC that reelected Governor Cuomo last month to a second term with some 78%+ of the vote.

It is the protesters who either resort to outright crime as in Ferguson, or generalized protests with far greater legitimacy who nonetheless miss the mark by not protesting at the true bastions of government oppression, namely the courthouses and legislatures, let along police stations and police academies which train the police, nor the despicable police unions that apparently never met a statute they did not like, marked by their lobbying, such as this, in favor of such oppressions as the cigarette/ petrochemical medical quackery protectionist drug prohibitionist 'laws'.   A number of protesters that I saw marching in the street in Times Square Manhattan in late November 2014 were carrying signs proclaiming revolutionary socialism- suggestive of some jesuitical ultra left organizing.

It is the undeserved enthronement of race baiters as Al Sharpton who seize upon relatively poor quality if not outright fraud cases.  Recall that Sharpton made his name during the late 1980s with the infamous Twana Brawely case.

Meanwhile countless legitimate cases of police brutality indeed outright murder get way less attention, particularly those involving the papacy's drug war- an issue that Sharpton seems to not want to deal with despite its culpability in targeting so many people.

Friday, December 19, 2014

Mafia Jesuit Pope Lauded By The New York Times

Pope Francis S.J., who supports massive human rights violations for drug racketeering scheme to protect cigarettes, alcohol and pharma from God-given natural herbs and their perversion into ultra concentrated forms of drugs, is called "a uniquely credible voice in the developing world" by The New York Times.


Thursday, December 18, 2014

Obama & Pope Francis Worked Together On Cuba - US Diplomatic Recognition

announced on Pope Francis' 78th birthday- December 17

Wednesday, December 17, 2014

Whatever Francis Wants, Francis Gets – Pope Clinches US-Cuba Pact

Not many people get to celebrate their birthday with a diplomatic romp... but as he turns 78 this Wednesday, the Pope can now claim precisely that.

Announced this morning by President Obama in a televised White House address, the US' "reset" paving the way toward full bilateral relations with Cuba and enhanced economic ties has largely been credited to the influence of Francis and concerted back-channel work on the part of the Holy See's geopolitical apparatus.

As Obama put it, at their March meeting in the Vatican, "His Holiness Pope Francis issued a personal appeal to me" to enter into talks with President Raul Castro to negotiate the release of Alan Gross, the American humanitarian worker imprisoned on the island for five years, while the pontiff urged Castro to pursue the reeturn of three Cubans jailed in the US with the White House. After initial discussions indicated a mutual openness toward resolutions, a November meeting of both sides at the Vatican sealed the agreement that saw Gross returned to the US this morning (along with a long-jailed US intelligence operative) and the Cubans likewise freed to the island.

"In particular," Obama said in closing his speech, "I want to thank His Holiness Pope Francis, whose moral example shows us the importance of pursuing the world as it should be, rather than simply settling for the world as it is."

Shortly thereafter, in a rare evening statement, the Vatican Secretariat of State said that Francis "wishes to express his warm congratulations for the historic decision taken by the Governments of the United States of America and Cuba to establish diplomatic relations, with the aim of overcoming, in the interest of the citizens of both countries, the difficulties which have marked their recent history." The Holy See promised to continue "its support for initiatives which both nations will undertake to strengthen their bilateral relations and promote the wellbeing of their respective citizens."

In sum, as Papa Bergoglio's June Holy Land peace summit scored global headlines yet failed to achieve discernible progress, today's development after a half-century standoff represents the signal diplomatic triumph of Francis' 21-month pontificate. Behind the scenes, meanwhile, even if the initial push came from the Pope, the breakthrough represents a no less sizable victory for Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Secretary of State who Francis chose for the role with a mandate to restore the Vatican's traditional standing as a geopolitical powerhouse in its ability to serve as both a peerless "listening post" and trusted mediator in international disputes.

In this case, the experience of Rome's key players provided an even more critical advantage: in his prior posting as Nuncio to Venezuela, Parolin had a rare insight into Cuba as the Vatican's mission-chief to what's become Havana's most significant Western ally, while his top deputy, the Sostituto Archbishop Angelo Becciu, had been Nuncio to the island itself for two years before returning to Rome as the Curia's "chief of staff" in 2011.

On another major front, the Vatican's role in securing the deal has likely been the reason for the holdup on Francis' intensely-awaited appointment of the next archbishop of Havana, which ops in Rome and Latin America have expected to take place sometime this fall following August's celebrations for the 50th priestly anniversary of Cardinal Jaime Ortega y Alamino, who at 78 is three years past the canonical retirement age.

While the Cuban church has been granted an enhanced space with which to work over Ortega's two-decade tenure at the helm – a reality sizably aided by two papal visits (in 1998 and 2012) – the new inroads have come at the expense of unrelenting criticism and suspicion toward the cardinal by the influential exile community, which has assailed Ortega as an accommodationist to the island's Communist regime in exchange for the church's increased freedoms.

The US deal's announcement notably comes 48 hours after the US Secretary of State, John Kerry, met with Parolin for the second time at the Vatican.

As Francis' SegStat was ostensibly briefed in confidence on the accord's release by his Stateside visitor, the Holy See's readout of the conversation revealed that Kerry sought the Vatican's aid on finding "adequate humanitarian solutions" for the treatment of terrorism-related prisoners at the US' detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, which the Obama administration has long aimed to close.

Back to the White House, yesterday likewise saw an appearance in the Oval Office from the USCCB President, Archbishop Joseph Kurtz of Louisville, for his first meeting with both Obama and Vice President Joe Biden (all above). No statement on the sit-down was given from either side.

Though today's policy reboot will widen the US' permissions for citizens to travel to Cuba and enable Cuban-Americans to increase their ability to send fiscal aid to their families and friends on the island, it's important to emphasize that the Federally-approved Stateside Catholic entity to help fund the Cuban church – the Boston-based Friends of Caritas Cubana – was already limit-free before the shift and is able to continue its work without change.

* * *
While the USCCB's international policy chief, Bishop Oscar Cantú of Las Cruces, issued a statement welcoming the Cuba accord as "past due" and urging even "more engagement" across the 93-mile strait, on this day, the national church's lead word comes from a different Mothership... the one "so close to the United States."

Amid no shortage of blaring speculation on the Pope's so-called "possibilities" for the red hat at next February's Consistory – even as, by the Faith and law alike, the Roman Pontiff freely acts however he deems fit – it's admittedly been rather amusing that mention of the archbishop of Miami has been conspicuous by its absence.

Put kindly, it's a surprise – at least, it's been if you expect folks who fancy themselves "smart" to evince some degree of actual intelligence or a basic grasp of reality. Then again, when it comes to the bearer of the most self-aware motto of any American bishop, our glut of armchair pontiffs of whatever stripe would simply have too hard time exploiting Tom Wenski as an easy canvas for any of their political fantasies, or nightmares.

Ever since the native son took his talents back to South Beach in 2010, the first-ever red hat for the American Southeast – lest anybody forgot, the site of the now-US' oldest Catholic settlement – has hung in the balance. Add in that, over the time since, the 64 year-old championed Bergoglio's manifesto at Aparecida long before it became fashionable and counts two of Francis' lead confidants as his own longtime allies – all in the context of leading what's now a 1.4 million-member church in a key continental outpost – and all around, whatever happens in early January, the church's lead voice in what'll soon be the third-largest state has become a force to be reckoned with well beyond these shores... and that's just how he likes it.

Having grown up in the context of the Cuban Revolution's seismic impact on South Florida, ministry among the exiles has been a fixture of Wenski's life from his days as a seminarian – so much so that the community's legendary "godfather," the late, saintly Bishop Agustín Roman, preached his first Mass. Later, as head of Miami's Catholic Charities, the young auxiliary coordinated 75-ton food drops onto the island while moonlighting as a fixer for fresh immigrants, zipping his Harley past the bench's crop of exiles in the process to become the US church's de facto spokesman for Cuban affairs.

Accordingly, as today's news hit Calle Ocho with the force of a bomb, a horde of TV trucks instead charged Miami Chancery, which gave the place the feel of what an on-site op termed "a war room." And fresh off being honored by the local Hispanic press, it was just another instance of the man in his moment.

In a prepared statement, Wenski echoed the call he gave from the chair of the archbishop of Havana during a 2012 Mass in the capital's cathedral, where he implied in his homily that the Cuban leadership was "doomed to die... in their sins because they have refused to recognize [Jesus] as the 'I am' of human history," while urging "a 'soft landing'" for the island's people, "a landing that is open to a future of hope."

Ready to ride as ever, here's Wenski's response today:

Both President Obama and Raul Castro expressed appreciation to the role of Pope Francis in making possible what seems to be a real game changer in the historically strained relationship between Cuba and the United States. Pope Francis did what popes are supposed to do: Build bridges and promote peace. He acted much like his namesake, Francis of Asissi, who during the fifth crusade, went to Egypt to meet with the Sultan al Kamil in the interest of peace.

The Church in Cuba has always opposed the embargo, arguing that it was a blunt instrument that hurt the innocent more than the guilty; and the U.S. Church has supported the Catholic Church in Cuba. We have consistently advocated that the U.S. should revise this policy, in the hope that engagement and dialog would prove more helpful in improving conditions in Cuba than a policy of confrontation and isolation.

In comments that Raul Castro made, he seemed to indicate that his government was open to engage in conversations with the U.S. on issues related to democracy and human rights. Progress in this area is normally the result, and not the precondition, of such talks - and so the prospect of such talks is a positive development. As president Obama said, to seek the collapse of Cuba is not sound policy. Cuba needs change. Today's announcement is a game changer as I said - but as Cuba transitions through such changes we all should encourage a soft landing - that is, change that is peaceful and offers real hope for the Cuban people on both sides of the Florida Straits.
True to form, with ferocious protests over the policy-shift having emerged from much of South Florida's exile leadership, late word from Miami says Wenski's slated an early Thursday meeting with the group.

All that said, however, the Quote of the Day – at least, on the ecclesial front – belongs regardless to Francis' marquee domestic appointee to date: in his own quickly-released statement, Archbishop Blase Cupich of Chicago observed that while "usually people receive gifts on their birthday," thanks to his involvement in the lead-up to the accord, as he turned 78, today's news instead made for a gift the Pope "has generously given to the world."

posted by Rocco Palmo at 16:14

Thursday, December 11, 2014

'Freedom from Religion Foundation' Thread FREE PASS to Rome Geopoliticking

Blames "Christians' for the crimes of the various religious inquisitions in Europe and North America with virtually NO mention of the Papacy, the Vatican, the Roman Catholic Church, nor Eastern Orthodoxy.  A few good statements with most apparently oblivious to the crimes of he Vatican.

“Who burnt heretics? Who roasted or drowned millions of 'witches'? Who built dungeons and filled them? Who brought forth cries of agony from honest men and women that rang to the tingling stars? Who burnt Bruno? Who spat filth over the graves of Paine and Voltaire? The answer is one word--CHRISTIANS.”

—G.W. Foote, author, editor, and convicted blasphemer in "Are Atheists Wicked?," chapter from Flowers of Freethought (1894)

- See more at: http://ffrf.org/news/day/#sthash.cw4i38JS.dpuf
    • John DeMartini Orthodox religion is all about control, having nothing to do with a creator.
    • Tom Branner Christianity has oppressed everyone for thousands of years, now they're crying wolf as they're barely being oppressed.
    • Herbert Davis Are those the same folks who killed the ERA equal rights amendment?
    • Tony Messina the bio on this guy is incredible. He's a great man worthy of more admiration for sure....
    • Tony Messina It's sad that if your not a christian "suck-up" then your not worth a historical mention. So many non-christians have done so much in this country and it needs to be point out.
    • Angela Heslip agreed wholeheartedly..hell they ven try to claim that all the founding fathers are chritians and that this country is founded on christian faith..that is such crap for if it were true there would be no 1st ammedment and seperation of church and state would be non existent. They need to read Thomas Paine.All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
      Thomas Paine
      Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/.../aut.../t/thomas_paine.html...

      Enjoy the best Thomas Paine Quotes at BrainyQuote. Quotations by Thomas Paine, English Writer, Born...
    • Mark Peters Religion... that which divides a species .....
    • Judy Foulds Exactly, Angela. And I do point out every day the thoughts and quotes from Freethinkers.....it's my FB status!
    • Sandra Kral Mr. Foote was wrong about one thing -- millions of "witches" were not killed. It was more like 200,000 at most, according to academic research, over a period of 3 centuries or so.
    • Renaroo de Lisieux Now, now...let's share the wealth. Over 6 millions Jewish and 3 millions Christians died in concentration camps in WWII, not including our historical favorites Mao, Stalin. Human beings are capable of great beauty, and darkness, regardless of beliefs. With that said, Christians who committed evil will suffer greater accountability.

      History documents ample, ridiculous monstrosities from both sides of the aisle.

      We have the present to work for a better future for ourselves and children.

      We must fight against oppression, intolerance, brutality and evil together.
    • Sally Ann Cassan-Archuleta Throughout history, worshipers of deities have stood behind the guise of their god to inflict the most hideous of pain unto others.
    • Tyler Kendall Though I agree with the sentiment, I think millions of witches may be an exaggeration.
    • Russell Edgington What happens to freedom of speech if a Christian speaks there mind it's gay bashing or infringing on non beloved rights if a atheist does it is there right to do so from freedom of speech I have yet to see post of Christians bash omg back most of there responses are I will pray for you why does that bother atheists if they don't belive in God just trying to understand!!!!!!!!!
    • Chris Turner Thing is Russell, those "bashing" posts get removed by admin

      We're constantly being threatened with hell and told we are immoral. We're often told to leave the country.

      Threats of violence and death are not unusual either.
    • Airnoi Phongsavath It doesn't bother me that Christians believe in god, what bothers me is they try to control and condemn me with their self righteousness. That's what bothers me.
    • Dennis L. Howell "If she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood! And therefore . . . A witch!!!" Monty Python and The Holy Grail
    • Brian Beasley Can't argue with history.
    • Jeremiah Policky ...and that's almost the least of what they've done
    • Wes Bryant Hitler was not atheist, he was against the Jewish origins and influence if Christianity. A common silly misconception. The others were also not necessarily atheist, merely stressed church and state separation- so that was highlighted by Christian radicals as the reason for the rest of the atrocities that ended up occurring under their reign. So, the atheist-atrocity models so often cited by the fundamentalists are unfounded actually. Ah well, they'll keep being cited though... they've got to have something to come back with.
    • Osman Atif Arpad Christians OK but what about other religions
    • Amy Anderson Osman if it makes you feel better, religion was created to control the masses. The biggest threat to religion is an education.
    • Lillian Maxie It's funny how defensive Christians get when their true history is pointed out! Nobody ever said other religions don't commit atrocities. This post just happens to be about the REALITY of Christianity, and talking about these facts drives Christians crazy.
    • Rogelio De Las Casas I have had the experience with many believers that they feel amazed when they learn that I am atheist. Even they always try to convince of the contrary.
    • Rogelio De Las Casas The believers are always showing their religion point of view, like they have the right to do it but, if I try to do the same about my atheistic understanding of the world, they feel threatened and treat me like I am a bad person. They are always prejudiced.
    • Rogelio De Las Casas I think that exposing them self help them to confirm their believes.
    • Amy Anderson My favorite. "But you are such a nice person?" WTF? lol
    • Craig Miller I agree tom, but I think it's a stretch to even say that they're being oppressed at all. For some reason I've never understood, we're all supposed to have some special respect for religion, and it's been out of bounds to criticize religion or question its special privileges; and now that more and more people are starting to question this, theists cry about being "oppressed"...tragic
    • Craig Miller Russell Edgington, I'd love to answer your questions, but first I'm going to need you to translate them to english...to answer what I think is your question, most atheists aren't bothered by religious belief as such; what bothers all atheists is the fact that an overwhelming majority of theists want to push their beliefs on others, and force everyone else to live by their rules through legislation. Believe whatever you want, nobody cares...but give others' beliefs the same respect
    • Lindy Dangelmayer Too many people have died in the name of religion. How many wars have been fought in the name of atheism? In the words of John Lennon, "imagine no religion..."
    • Susan Collins Earlier estimates put the numbers in the millions, and later estimates put it in the 100-200 thousand range. Given the much smaller population at the time, it was a horrendous percentage.

      "Mr. Foote was wrong about one thing -- millions of "witches" were not killed. It was more like 200,000 at most, according to academic research, over a period of 3 centuries or so"
    • Deborah Mills If god makes people so good, why do we need so many lawyers?
    • Neil David Brown Renaroo de Lisieux The hatred that fueled the holocaust has its origins in the Jewish rejection of jesus as the messiah. You do realise this, don't you?

      Every year on hitlers birthday prayers were said in every catholic church in germany that asked god to help the fuerher prosper.

      The catholic church and european fascism had a 'brother and sister' relationship.
    • Mike Hanauer The Church's history of virtually always being wrong on moral issues has resulted in more human suffering than perhaps any other institution. The crusades, slavery, science denial, abortion, public education, population growth, birth control, divorce, tolerated atrocities, environment, evolution, right to die, women’s equality and rights, gay rights, organizational democracy and transparency, child abuse... The list goes on and on with no indication of any ability to learn from past mistakes or to acknowledge the existence of shades of gray.

      The Church has proven to be a dictatorship more concerned with control than anything else. I believe the church may well be the most dangerous institution on the planet. And nothing changes over 2000 years. It saddens me that this continues to be tolerated.
    • Neil David Brown Russell Edgington Christians speak their mind? Close to being an oxymoron - surely? They have no minds of their own. They were captured by their church, and they don't seem to want them back.
    • Jillian Christine Russell,

      I will answer some of your points. Let me know if I have missed any:

      Freedom of Speech just means the government can't restrict your speech. It doesn't mean that you can say any bigoted, intolerant garbage you want and the rest of us have to sit quietly. It just means the government can't restrict speech. People have the right to judge others for their speech. If you say something disgusting, there are social consequences for it.

      Christians come here constantly to bash, judge and torment. They get removed quickly though.

      You think it's okay for them to just say, "I will pray for you?" It's not. Who asked them anyway? Really, who in the heck asked for some religious prayer? That's got to be one of the most passive aggressive things a Christian says. It's a polite way of saying,"fuck you" to people they know who don't want their prayers. What are they praying for anyway? For everyone to agree with them?

      Unless someone asked them to pray then their declaration is just for attention. They aren't really going to pray for anyone, they just want to let everyone know that they say they're going to and they think it will bother us that they are. In reality it's just a pathetic stunt for attention and a middle finger to atheists. If you're going to pray than pray. Don't run around telling everyone.
    • Marc Breuning All religion is nothing but fear based indoctrination to control others. If we do that in any other setting it is illegal. Why isnt religion?
    • Shawn W. Nippard All 4,200 or so religions on the planet are an insult to the intelligence of the human race! Religion = mass delusion! Thank goodness for science & atheism!
    • Darla Lundell All of this points to religion being man made.
    • Tracey Frankcom Sandra Kral posted, "Mr. Foote was wrong about one thing -- millions of "witches" were not killed. It was more like 200,000 at most, according to academic research, over a period of 3 centuries or so."

      I'd be interested in some academic articles on this topic. With that said, how can one quantify totals for something that is still going on today?
    • Renaroo de Lisieux Injustice shows that morality is not relative.
    • L'Aguila Forte They continue today. However, because our more civilized world, they can only attack verbally and politically using the money given to them by their brainwashed followers. roflmao
    • Kimberly Ireland Many believe atheist and satanic are synonymous. They simply don't understand the difference, lol.
    • Paul Davis I see religion as a crutch for the masses. Some use alcohol or drugs to numb themselves from the harsh reality of life. Others use religion in the same manor. A crutch is a crutch. Too bad there's no industry to rehab religious fanatics, like the drug addicts. And for the ones trying to bring religion into politics----
      " you can't run a country by a book of religion,
      Not by a heap or a lump or a smidgen,
      Those foolish rules of ancient date,
      Designed to make you all feel great,
      While you fold spindle or mutilate,
      Those unbelievers from a neighboring state!" FZ
    • Dorian Newton Religion is man made.
    • Matt Bauman Musn't forget the millions killed for being jewish, gay, black, or just not arian by the nazi's during and after the holocaust.
  • Sylvia Wirthlin so tired of their imaginary friend...
  • Timothy Steele I doubt it was ever actually "millions" of witches. probably more along the lines of hundreds of thousands.
  • Chris Miller Always gotta bring up the Muslims. Read history. The Muslims have never done this. Jews and Christians top the list for mass murdering campaigns. If you want to count the recent acts of those who do not follow the Koran and instead follow insane Imams than your numbers aren't would the bullshit pouring out of your mouth.
  • Tracey Frankcom You know, a few people have corrected the assertion in the quotation regarding the number murdered as supposed witches. Does it matter if it was hundred of thousands vs millions? Is there an order of magnitude beneath which we cease to be concerned about atrocities being committed in the name of religion?
  • Neil David Brown And the cry goes up, "but these weren't 'true' christians. No true christian did a terrible deed - because as soon as they do, they are no longer being a christian." Which is a nice move if you think about it.

    Suddenly it matters not that the perpetrators of genocide, inquisition, crusades and subjugation of women SAID they were Christian - because we can retrospectively re-label them based on their behaviour - judged by today's standards.

    Well - I'd be personally Ok with this if Christians agree three things.

    *First - they agree to return the riches and power their attrocities achieved for them. (If Id gotten rich from immoral earnings - Id want to give it back.....)
    *Second - they agree that the moral standards with which they condemn said attrocities were not achieved by religion - but despite it.
    *Thirdly - that they agree the Bible has provided ample justifcation for immoral behaviour in the past, and is there to do so in the future and so should be moved to the restricted section of every library.
  • Bill Cross And Josef Stalin, one of the biggest mass murderers in history, was an atheist. Can we just admit that humans are capable of atrocious behavior and if they can claim religion as a justification, they will? If they can't claim religion, they will still behave atrociously.
  • Frank Wagle -
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
    ~ Steven Weinberg
  • Andrew Gilbert Mr Weinberg was incorrect. Good and evil is a false dichotomy, so "evil" people do good things and "good" people do evil things all the time, regardless of their religion.
  • Neil David Brown Bill Cross - You make a false correlation and Wienberg was bang on the money. Joseph Stalin was an atheist but he didn't commit attrocities 'in the name of atheism'. There is all the world of difference. I'm not saying that being an atheist doesnt mean you cant be an evil sh*t as well. You can - and Stalin is a great example of that. But your non-belief in a deity isnt likely to drive you to commit attrocities....

    Where as a christian may commit attrocities because his bible (or priests interpretation of same) has mandated it (kill gays) or provided a clear example to follow (Amalekites). You show me the atheist texts that provided Stalin with his inspiration - and Ill take it all back!

    The attack is on religion - because of what it can get an otherwise normal person to do in it's name. The implication of what you say is that if you take religion away there will still be the same amount of attrocity in the world - and Im just not buying this.
  • Jillian Christine Bill,

    **** And Josef Stalin, one of the biggest mass murderers in history, was an atheist. ****

    .Stalin didn't murder in the name of atheism. Nice try on the strawman though.

    ***Can we just admit that humans are capable of atrocious behavior and if they can claim religion as a justification, they will? If they can't claim religion, they will still behave atrociously*****

    Here is a good quote that answers your comment:

    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."
    ~Steven Weinberg
  • Susan Collins He was also a Russian and a man. Men are bad. Russians are bad.

    //And Josef Stalin, one of the biggest mass murderers in history, was an atheist//
  • Martha Guyer Don't forget how it was the American Pioneer Christians who tried killing off all the NATIVE American Indians here
  • Susan Collins They did wonderful things in Africa, India, and China, too.
  • Linda D. Meyer All religions have a history of killing. Look further.
  • Tracey Frankcom Some of the American evangelicals are still preaching a wonderful gospel of hatred toward homosexuality in Africa, since they can't really get much traction on calling for the execution of homosexuals in their own country. And, as noted by Jillian and Neil above, this is being done explicitly in the name of the Christian god, and not at all despite or coincidental to their religion. No, it is being done citing the authority of scripture, with all the associated self-righteousness, hellfire, and brimstone.

    And, as I noted earlier, people are still being killed as alleged witches, this again being done with the authority of local pastors. (Again, this is in Africa.)
  • Tracey Frankcom Then there's that dipshit (now former) teacher in Ohio who somehow seemed to think it was OK to use a Tesla coil to brand one of his students with the sign of the teacher's religion - a cross.
  • Renaroo de Lisieux Morality cannot be relative. When men and women define their own codes of morality, it makes possible for unimaginable atrocities as we have witnessed in history and recent memories.

    What is to prevent a bully from imposing his/her morality over you or your children?

    Democracy? Nyet, democracy coded slavery as an institution and reversed it at huge human and national costs. It could reverse course again by popular consent. Mob rule and lynching is another illustration of the fall failacy of relative morality.

    In our own families, our children squabble and fight. The strongest or allied group would prevail unless the parents or guardians invoke their codes in the same way our government is constraint by the constitution.

    But as we have discussed earlier, relative morality affects the rules if law even our wonderful (if not one of the best) democracy.

    However flaw governments are, we must rely on them to guarantee equal protection under the law. This is the standard, the theorem I submit to you gentle readers that relativism is a poison to society.
  • Jessica Kopish If morality is objective, then what is the source and how do we all know it?
    A better question is if morality is objective, then why do we have different morality now than in the past? If morality was objective, then why should we look at historical acts and laws "in context"? If morality is objective, then it doesnt change at the whim of the majority, and yet that is exactly what happens all the time.
  • Chris Turner So who gets to define and interpret this absolute, objective morality Renaroo?

    What rationale do they use to define and interpret it?
  • Neil David Brown Renaroo de Lisieux I doubt you realise how much of what you wrote applies to religion.

    You seem too be under a very infantile misapprehension. That morality gets fixed by popular consent, and that humans if left to our own devices will descend overnight into self-pleasuring, selfish wantonness.

    is it possible to have a lower opinion of your species than this? Doubtful.

    Morality is a label we give to a set of behaviours that allow our species to collaborate more effectively. Collaboration is possibly our greatest evolutionary advantage. Without it, the tribes of israel would not have made it as far as Mount Sinai.

    You seem to confuse individual behaviour with morality like other people confuse weather with the climate.

    Morality evolves and adapts to the circumstance of our species. The more recent 'advances' include the rejection of slavery, misogeny and homophobia. None of these advances were made with Gods guidance- rather, inspite of it.

    (Your responses are often very ambiguous, so apologies if I have taken them the wrong way. However the implication behind them is that we must look to religion for our moral compass, where as the reality is the bible has been toxic to moral progress for two millenia)
  • Robert Guesman Just as many bad things were done bye people and groups that were not affiliated with any religions.
  • Suzane Watkinson no Robert, if atheists were less moral than believers there would be more atheists in prison. non bleivers are now about 20 % of the population but we are less than 1 % of the prison population.
  • Dave Dundon It is more likely people will listen to the argument that the error is of "all" religions in general rather than attacking Christianity or any one religion. Religion most often interferes with real morals and ethics in its attempt to get everyone to accept one religious belief based on faith rather than fact. The important message is that morals and ethics can be based of common sense and observation of the outcome of actions. Morality does not require religion. In fact religion seems to always be more important than actual morality by those who believe in any religion. Question: In what way would the world be different if there were no God?
  • Amy Anderson LOL Bs David, but keep dreaming if that makes you feel better.
  • Chris Turner So David, you're trying to tell us that the prison population is actually made up of atheists who convert whilst in prison!?

    You do realise that people have to declare their religion as they enter the prison system, not during their stay...?

    The institutions need to know this info in case (for example) that person dies and religious practices / rituals need to be observed.
  • Jessica Kopish I always am surprised when people blame the government for no being so big as to tell all american children who to pray to and how to do it. With such an overwhelming majority of Xtians in this country, blaming the prison population on the small government seems silly, as there are over 3 times as many churches in this country than public schools.
  • Chris Turner Irrelevant to the point being made. The majority of prisoners identify as religious, AS THEY ENTER THE SYSTEM.

    Btw - people don't "convert to Christ", they convert to Christianity. I understand quite a few people convert to Islam too.
  • Chris Turner Example please of "atheist shoving their crap down ours".
  • Jessica Kopish Wait. Are you trying to claim that church SHOULD be mandatory?
    It is because school is mandatory by our government that it cannot be seen as promoting any one religion, otherwise you have the tyranny of the govt coercing and promoting a religion to all children, regardless of parental choices. Is that what you support, David Rayburn? What happens when it isn't your version of your religion that is forced on children by our govt? Because individual and group prayer by students in public schools is perfectly legal, as you know. As long as the student is not disrupting class time or their peers, or attempting to coerce other people's children to the religious ritual. That is why in some school districts, they have opted for a room set aside for kids to pray (often for Muslim students, but also for anyone else who wants to avail themselves of the option). Afterschool groups can include the Good News Club, ACA, etc. The only thing not allowed in public school with regard to religion is teacher or school administrator or other agent (coaches, for example) who are working in their capacity as a govt official cannot promote nor denigrate any religious activity. They cannot participate, nor stop religious activity by their students as long as that student is not violating other student's rights.
    Why is that not enough for you?
  • Chris Turner "Why is that not enough for you?".

    Going out on a limb a bit here, but is the answer Dominionism!?

  • Chris Turner "Among nearly 300,000 prisoners released in 15 states in 1994, 67.5% were rearrested within 3 years. A study of prisoners released in 1983 estimated 62.5%."

    If, as posited by David, many in-mates convert to Christianity DURING their time in the system, surely you'd expect that figure to be much lower?

    Of course, that's also making the presumption that Christians have superior morals.

  • Jessica Kopish I always wonder why some of the religious would attempt to weaken and erode the separation of church and state at the same time they complain about their religious population going down and other religions (often Islam for Xtians) going up. Do they seriously not know that the thing that keeps them from having a government that supports a religion they despise is the same one that keeps me from supporting theirs? What is funny is that when I was a die hard Xtian, I still agreed with an absolute separation of church and state, knowing that I would not want a religion not my own in my government. maybe I am just a little better at seeing the "unintended consequences" of these dominionist actions.
  • Jessica Kopish no true scotsman fallacy in 3...2...1...
  • Chris Turner Buddha, Allah, Shiva/Vishnu/Brahma etc. are equally not endorsed or promoted in public schools. Publicly funded schools are also not allowed to endorse or promote atheism.

    If it were truly about letting children make up their own minds, then ALL major world religions should be taught, along with atheism as an option. That's (partly) why we have comparative religion classes which look at all the options academically, without promotion or endorsement of any specific one.
  • Jessica Kopish No one has taken your god out of schools. We have ensured that the government is not coercing other people's children to a religion, but otherwise children have the right to practice whatever religion they want in schools.
    It seems you are complaining to the wrong people.
    I'll point out that this country was also founded on slavery and the rape and murder and theft from our native peoples, women as chattel, etc. so if that is what you mean by one nation under god, then I'm glad we are going away from it.
  • Chris Turner So it wasn't about giving kids the facts on various religions and letting them choose for themselves at all.

    As I guessed, it's dominionism.

    ...and in what way has there been a failure (other than failure to indoctrinate)?
  • Amy Anderson Treaty of Tripoli was ratified by unanimous vote by Congress in 1797. Article 11 states that the US is in no sense founded on the christian religion. One nation under god wasn't added to our pledge before the 1950's. It was added due to the Red Scare. Before the 50's it was simply one nation indivisible. In god we trust wasn't added to our paper currency until that time also. Before the 50's our paper money said simply E Pluribus Unum (From many One). History is a wonderful subject, might I suggest you studying it.
  • Jack Costa So did plenty of Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Socialists, Fascists, Communists, etc.

    Whenever someone has an idea that they believe strong enough to kill over... that is when massacres happen... especially when such is done by the government.

    The lowest common denominator between all of histories massacres, isn't religion... It's the state.

    Libertarianism is really the only *REAL* cure to this problem. Religion nor lack of religion will solve it alone... as the State, given enough power, will corrupt men of all creeds, religions or non-religions, in an endless quest for power over their fellow man.