From Troy Space:
From: Guy Stair Sainty (guy@sainty.org) Sent: 14 September 2008 23:52:22 To: troy space When I read your texts which are largely extreme polemics against the Catholic Church, the Holy See and the Jesuits, I find myself both shocked and incredulous – the former at the extreme terms you employ, which betray the kind of violent anti-Catholicism that I had thought had been replaced in most modern societies with secularist disdain, and the latter because they defy all possible logic. The fact that you are bent on insulting the Church of which I am a member and the Faith to which In subscribe bothers me less; I have come across plenty of religious bigots and they are usually far beyond reason on other matters as well.
The fact that the Catholic Church has repeatedly condemned freemasonry (the “illuminate”) etc, seems to have escaped you entirely along with the fact that its greatest enemies, particularly in the late 18th and 19th centuries, were all freemasons. Whatever one thinks of the Jesuits (and the ones I know personally are uniformly spiritual and devout men with a sincere love of their fellow men – in the generic sense), to tie them into freemasonry and these kind of conspiracies simply betrays an ignorance of the history of the Society. Not least because the Jesuits of the late 20th century are the polar opposite in their understanding of the role of the Papacy and the Church to those of the 19th century; for me their obsession with social justice (not in itself wrong) has clouded their judgment in some other areas.
Again, knowing the Order of Malta and its history as well as I do, I find the idea that it is some kind of secret power simply laughable. The men who run it are largely elderly, they include school teachers (the late grand master and another member of the sovereign council Fra Elie de Comminges), university professors (Fra John Macpherson), lawyers (Anthony Sanchez Correa), a Sotheby’s regional representative (fra Matthew Festing, the present Grand Master), and the like; most of them have little or any interest in politics and very little experience of business. They would be horrified to find a freemason in their midst.
The Order has a particular concern on obtaining wider recognition of its sovereignty because this enables it to carry out its world-wide hospitaller and humanitarian mission more effectively. Hence it must keep on good terms with Italy, in particular, as its extra-territorial palaces are within Italy’s sovereign territory. The very countries which you accuse it of being involved with politically, however; the UK and USA, mst emphatically do not recognise it; indeed the decorations of the Order cannot even be worn in the UK except at ceremonies of the Order and of the British Order of St John. This latter, by the way, has no connections with the pseudo Orders that have freemasonry connections – but it does have some 400,000 volunteers around the world such as the 13,000 of the Sri Lankan St John who were the first and most effective when their island was devastated by the Tsunami.
I am a member of the Order of St Gregory the Great, a knight commander with star, a life member of the British Association of Papal Knights. But having a Papal knighthood is not being part of some secret society – most of the people do not know each other and the UK is one of the few countries which even has an organisation of any kind. The Vatican itself keeps the original file on each recipient, but after getting one’s diploma one may never hear from them again. There are no secret instructions to the “troops”!!!
Guy Sainty
From: troy_space@hotmail.com [mailto:troy_space@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 3:41 AM
To: Guy Stair Sainty
Dear Mr Sainty
Thank you for your very full letter stating your perceptions of my position & that of the Roman Catholic hierarchy.
I am willing to take on board any relevant information on the matters that you bring up below & it is interesting to hear your statement on the nature of the RCC hierarchy & the knighthood orders.
In due course I shall be preparing a full statement of my understanding & position, outlining my main sources & pointing out empirical cases that support my contentions. This weekend I have had to attend to some personal matters (& that will take up some of my time tomorrow) & have not been able to devote the time to going over the wealth of material that you have sent me prior to this email. I have however been looking into certain matters discussed in some of the statements that you made in your initial response & will be using some of that info in my full statement.
The fruitful path for seeking the truth lies in combining the so-called scientific processes of observation, experimentation, induction, deduction with appropriate measures of rationalisation & intuition.
“Intuition is a combination of historical (empirical) data, deep and heightened observation and an ability to cut through the thickness of surface reality. Intuition is like a slow motion machine that captures data instantaneously and hits you like a ton of bricks. Intuition is a knowing, a sensing that is beyond the conscious understanding — a gut feeling. Intuition is not pseudo-science.” Abella Arthur
For now I would like to leave you with one undeniable & perfectly illustrative example of the kind that most strongly supports my contentions and assertions:
- Prince Michael of Kent: The Duke of Kent’s brother, Prince Michael is the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Mark Master Masons. His wife, Princess Michael of Kent, has always been a Roman Catholic & is a Dame Grand Cross of Honour and Devotion of the (Papal-loyal) SMOM, within the Order’s British Association. Princess Michael is also the senior Dame (Dame Grand Cross of Justice) of the British and Irish Delegation of the Franco-Neapolitan branch of the (Papal-loyal) Constantinian Order.
(from: http://troyspace2.wordpress.com/about/ )
So when you state the members of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta "would be horrified to find a freemason in their midst", we can see that this is far from accurate. In fact I will provide a number of examples that show that the connections between Masonry and Royalty, Masonry & the Knighthood Orders & Masonry & the Roman Catholic hierarchy are intimate & long-established.
I will also state that in contrast to your implication above (I say implication, as you apparently refer to the tone of some writings of mine. Even here I would suggest that "violent" is not an appropriate epithet. Firm & resolved? Yes. "Violent"? I would strongly disagree with that. And in terms of physical violence: I do not advocate violence either publicly or in private. I do believe in self-defence however, as did our Lord Jesus Christ, as illustrated perfectly in this article:
http://troyspace2.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/the-sword-of-just-defence/
I have enjoyed this discourse with you & can assure you that it has sharpened my knowledge both directly & indirectly, the latter via some of the follow-up research that I have embarked on.
In the pursuit of truth & awareness -
Troy
From: Guy Stair Sainty (guy@sainty.org) Sent: 15 September 2008 07:40:20 To: troy space The duke of Kent inherited the position of grand master of one branch of British Freemason, the first member of the royal family to hold this position was the duke of Sussex, a son of George III and since then there has always been a British royal prince as grand master – a similar position is held in Sweden by the King of Sweden, who gives out the Order of Charles XIII, a kind of official Order for freemasons. But it demonstrates a serious misunderstanding of British (or Swedish) freemasonry to parallel these with the continental variety. The latter was a direct result of, and closely connected to 18th and 19th century anti-clericalism; the British was really a kind of fraternal organisation –silly, but not directly harmful and with only loose ties to the continent (there may be lodges that are close, but not those headed by the duke of Kent). [I contend that the links are via "regular" high-level Masons who are either Vatican agents - Leo Zagami asserts that there are around 50 in the UGLE, including Julian Reese & the Marquess of Northampton - or are members of the "irregular" elite Monte Carlo Lodge or the Masonic Executive Committee, also based in Monte Carlo, that meets twice a year] Prince Michael’s participation in the Masons is a ceremonial one, like many of such positions held by the royal family; but he is not, of course, a Roman Catholic and took on this position relatively recently. [as stated above his wife is a Roman Catholic & a Dame of the Franco-Neapolitan Constantinian Order & the SMOM, thus establishing a close Vatican/Royal/Masonic nexus] That is not to say that RCs should become British freemasons, but that in this Prince Michael is following a royal tradition. RCs object to the ceremonial, the reference to a Supreme Being (which denies the Trinity), and the secrecy, which are the principal features of British freemasonry. Of course there is the agenda about helping each other and secret handshakes, etc, but again while it may sometimes lead to unfair advantage, so sometimes is having gone to the same school with someone, etc, and in any case it is hard to prove.
I have no doubt that internationally minded freemasons have some fantasies concerning their powers; certainly they are influential within the power structures of Italy, France and may be Spain and probably Germany. We RCs, however, do not forget that it was [Jesuit-directed] freemasons who brought about the French revolution and the destruction of the Church in France
[after the monarchy upheld the Papal ban on the Jesuits], that freemasons destroyed the old Catholic monarchies of Italy and led the campaign against the Papal states, that it was freemasons who provided the leadership for the Spanish revolution of 1931, the Russian revolution of 1917 and the Portuguese in 1910, all harshly anti-clerical and republican [It was the Russian Orthodox clergy who were among the main targets & victims of the Jesuit-planned Revolution, as were the Romanovs who had broken with the so-called Holy Alliance & the concordat with the Vatican - now under Jesuit control with their ban being lifted by the Papacy. Stalin let the Jesuits back into Russia for the first time in a century in 1922]. I think that today, however, while they are good at conspiracies, it is more difficult to suborn democracies – except perhaps in a country like Italy where there is so much corruption.But these people are the enemies of the Church, the Papacy and the Catholic Orders not their allies in some great plot. [At the top they meet. Via the P2 Paramasonic setup, the Monte Carlo Lodge & the Grand Lodge Ekklesia in the Vatican, consisting of four lodges: two of the Scottish Rite & two of the York Rite, not to mention those Jesuits & Vatican Cardinals who are also Memphis-Misraim Masonic Illuminati. This Masonic/Jesuit/Vatican has been testified to in depth by whistleblowers, occultists & former occultists, including Alberto Rivera, Malachi Martin, Gerard Bouffard, Leo Zagami, Madame HP Blavatsky & many others]
As for your language in regard to the Church; it is characterised by the same harsh rhetoric as that of most ultra-Protestant sects
Guy Sainty
[as opposed to Jesuit/Masonic-created & infiltrated ones], and frankly I find these (with their neo-cons, their belief in the conversion of Israel once it is ruled by the Jews, etc [now those are the Jesuit/Masonic-created & infiltrated ones!]) to be more dangerous to peace than freemasons. The rhetoric is similar to the kind of language used by the anti-Semitism of the pre-WWII era, and we know where that led [false & hypocritical considering that the Vatican has been the most anti-semitic force in history, whether including Roman Catholic Jesuit coadjutor Adolf Hitler or not]. This is the language of those who executed tens of thousands of innocent and loyal Catholics during the Protestant Reformation, which forced a Taliban-like regime on existing societies with the suppression of liturgy, the murder of priests, the stripping of altars, the destruction of art and the burning of books [This is a complete inversal of the facts. Protestantism was the natural development against an anti-Bible & anti-Christian Satanic Vatican that was the true architect & implementer of genocide in Europe called the Inquisition. Where are the Cathars & many others now? The Vatican is the greatest creator of evil known to man. Any punishment meted out to Jesuits & other Catholics in Protestant nations was due to their infiltrating & spying in pursuance of the Counter Reformation agenda that would have destroyed those Protestant nations that allowed for exponentially greater freedoms of conscience, speech & the press than had been known under Rome's totalitarian control]. It is most certainly not the language of Love that is central to the message of Jesus Christ. Perhaps you should recall the two greatest commandments. [Jesus also said "as many as I love, I rebuke & chasten: be zealous therefore and repent" (Revelation 3:19) & "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God" (Matthew 22:29). Rome has always sought to cherry-pick the parts of the Bible that suit her from one moment to the next - TS]
From: troy space
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 6:05 AM
To: troy space
Subject: 2008 09 15: TROY INTERVIEWS LEO LYON ZAGAMI #13 - 135 MINS. - AMENDED & EXTENDED BLOG
http://troyspace2.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/2008-09-15-troy-interviews-leo-lyon-zagami-13-135-mins/
http://leozagami.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/2008-09-15-troy-interviews-leo-lyon-zagami-13-135-mins/2008 09 15: TROY INTERVIEWS LEO LYON ZAGAMI #13 - 135 MINS.
FIRST NEW LEO ZAGAMI INTERVIEW IN THREE MONTHS:
I discuss my recent trip to Paris, where among my many adventures I visited the Masonic Grand Orient to see the Museum & mention searching for the Jesuit & SMOM Knights of Malta HQ’s & the proximity of the SMOM’s second Paris base to the Pont de l’Alma underpass where Princess Diana died.
LEO ZAGAMI - 2008 09 15 - TROY - SKYPE INTERVIEW 13 - TROYSPACE2.WORDPRESS.COM - 135 MINS.mp3
Free download available at:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7bdhbofmyym
Leo comments that the possibility of Diana having a Muslim child meant that in the Illuminati’s eyes she needed to be murdered.From: guy@sainty.org
To: troy space
Subject: RE: 2008 09 15: TROY INTERVIEWS LEO LYON ZAGAMI #13 - 135 MINS. - AMENDED & EXTENDED BLOG
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:07:20 +0200I am sorry but this is quite looney!!! The SMOM French HQ is near the Paris underpass where Princess Diana died??? That, first of all, is simply a lie (it is in the Rue des Volontaires in the 15th, which is beyond the 7th on the left bank of the Seine, the underpass was by the Pont d’Alma on the right bank (I drive past there every day, I knew Diana since she was 13 – why not add me to the list of suspects (oh, no, you can’t, I was living in the US when she died) . Secondly so what? Do you really think the SMOM could have had any interest in or motive for her death? Aside from the fact that the exhaustive inquiries have shown beyond any doubt that it was an accident.
If you are going to come up with these conspiracy theories you really must add some slight thread that cannot be considered completely ridiculous and at least get the facts on which you base them accurate – or is this another conspiracy? Perhaps the SMOM is only pretending to have its HQ in the 15th arrondissement; maybe they are really hiding out in Zouari, the women’s hairdresser (where my wife and – oh horror – the wives of many French politicians go); after all it is just 100 meters from the Pont d’Alma underpass.
Are you also a fan of Dan Brown?From: troy space
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 2:19 PM
To: Guy Stair SaintyDear Mr Sainty
I had passed the interview on to you in case you were aware of many of the names & connections that Mr Zagami mentions (some of which I provide links & photos including ones with Zagami) in the summary accompanying it.
I do not lie about such easily checkable matters as the SMOM's Parisian HQ's & I stated quite clearly that I was referring to the SMOM's Parisian 2nd base of ops which is on the right hand side at the end of the road that is second on the left as you come out of the tunnel. I actually walked the length of the tunnel to verify whether or not there were any cameras - there weren't, nor were there any along the length of the journey from the Rue de Rivoli to the underpass - which may well have been the reason that the route was chosen.
Zagami himself stated nearly two years ago that the SMOM-controlled French intelligence elements executed the plan for Rome. The enquiries IMO were Masonically controlled & a whitewash. Al Fayed's allegations as to the nature of the operation were quite off the mark & I said so at the time. It would have been much smoother & simpler not bringing in the British elements.
It is my assessment that Dan Brown is an counterintelligence diversion agent.
I hope that you will check out the information below & acknowledge, even if only to yourself, that I was correct regarding the address:
http://www.orderofmalta.org/site/eur_paese.asp?idlingua=5&paese=8
Around the World
FRANCE
ASSOCIATION FRANCAISE (1891)
42, rue des Volontaires - 75015 Paris - France
Tél.: +33.(0)1.45.20.9614 et Fax: +33.(0)1.45.20.0013
E-mail: associationfrancaise@ordredemaltefrance.org
Web: www.ordredemaltefrance.org
Association des Œuvres Hospitalières Françaises de l'Ordre de Malte (O.H.F.O.M.)
Association reconnue d’utilité publique en 192842, rue des Volontaires - 75015 Paris - France
Tél.: +33.(0)1.45.20.80.20
E-mail: president.oeuvres@ordredemaltefrance.org
Web: www.ordredemaltefrance.org
Fondation des Oeuvres Hospitalières Françaises de l'Ordre de Malte
Fondation reconnue d'utilité publique en 199442, rue des Volontaires - 75015 Paris - France
Tél: +33.(0)1.45.20.80.20
E-mail: fondation@ordredemaltefrance.org
REPRESENTATION OFFICIELLE DE L'ORDRE AUPRES DE LA FRANCE42, rue des Volontaires - 75015 Paris - France
Tél.: +33.(0)1.45.20.9614 et Fax: +33.(0)1.45.20.0013
E-mail: fondation@ordredemaltefrance.org
MISSION PEMANENTE AUPRES DE L'ORGANISATION DES NATIONS UNIES POUR L’EDUCATION, LA SCIENCE ET LA CULTURE (UNESCO)Chancellerie: 8, rue Gaston de Saint-Paul - F 75116 Paris - France
Tél: +331.53.04.30.63 - Fax: +331.53.04.30.61
E-mail: f.dewaresquiel@citadelles-mazenod.com
REPRESENTANT AUPRES DU CONSEIL DE L'EUROPEChancellerie: 12, Terrasses De Montaigu - F 54140 Jarville - France
Fax +33 383 57 98 77
RE: 2008 09 15: TROY INTERVIEWS LEO LYON ZAGAMI #13 - 135 MINS. - AMENDED & EXTENDED BLOG From: Guy Stair Sainty (guy@sainty.org) Sent: 18 September 2008 17:32:28 To: troy space This is precisely why you make yourself look so foolish. First, this is the office of the Permanent Representative to UNESCO which has been open in this location for less than two years, not the 2nd HQ of the SMOM in France! Until 2006 the Representative, Count Francois de Waresquiel, maintained his office at his own apartment at 18 rue Las Casas, in the 7th, the other side of the river from the Pont d’Alma. Secondly, he was not even in post in 1997, but was appointed in 2001. Furthermore, I know all the senior people and the president of the French Association is Prince Dominique de la Rochefoucauld, a close personal friend whose sole interest is serving the poor and sick. That is what they collect money for, that is what people volunteer for and that is why they are actually scorned by conspiracy theorists who want to believe something else which is the purest fantasy, worthy of Dan Brown. Again your hypothesis is based on a pyramid of nonsense. The French intelligence organisatinos have absolutely no interest in the Order of Malta – if the French wanted to advance the Order’s interests they would accord it full diplomatic recognition, instead of accepting merely an Official Representative. GSS
From: troy space
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:30 PM
To: Guy Stair SaintyDear Mr Sainty
Thank you for that very precise information. I shall now bear that in mind for the article that I am preparing on my investigations of the tunnel & surrounding area. I have taken a close interest in that tragic event as I was in Paris on the 31st of August, my birthday & my brother phoned his girlfriend from a phone booth beneath the Eiffel Tower (which is still there, amazingly in these days of mobile phones), who told us of the crash. Not knowing where the crash was & not intending to go looking for it, we by chance walked along the side of the tunnel entrance & realized from the crowds, the police & the floral & written tributes to Diana - & Dodi - that that was the spot.
I shall take your word regarding this address only being SMOM-connected since 2006 & will not now be contending otherwise unless I find out any different. I would be interested to know who was using this premises in 1997.
"The French", by which I presume you mean the French government is not fully (or even mostly) equatable with French intelligence. SMOM Knights (& Dames) of Malta, are ultimately sworn to serve the Papacy - which supports the UN & is internationalist. The SMOM's special UN status is reflected in this. They are supra-national in concern. So too are the many French government internationalist socialists (& those of other European countries). As we know, the Maastricht Treaty was pushed by the Jesuits & devout Catholics. The secularism of the EU being a conveniant cover for the Papal agenda.
"Among European leaders who were most influential in furthering the Maastricht agenda were Jacques Delors and Dutch Prime Minister Ruud Lubbers (both Jesuit educated) as well as devout Catholics German Chancellor Kohl and Prime Minister Felipe Gonzales of Spain. These four leaders were all products of the Roman Catholic Social Movement, which believes that “there is no nobler task than the unifying of our continent” and views the idea of a united Europe as essentially a Catholic concept."http://www.the-highway.com/eu_Bennett.html
The international intelligence agencies have many Papal-loyal knights within them & many Jesuit-trained high-level operatives. William Donovan of the OSS, nicknamed the "Father of the CIA" was a Papal Knight of St Sylvester, William Casey was trained at Jesuit Fordham & George Tenet (9/11-era CIA Director) at Jesuit Georgetown, where he has since lectured. William Colby was renknowned as a hardline Roman Catholic & the FBI Director during 9/11 was the Roman Catholic Thomas J. Pickard. The masters that these men served are the Popes & the Jesuit Superior-Generals in Rome.
Not that Popes themselves are safe, if they step out of line then they too will receive a sharp warning at best (for them) or the poison cup of Borgia. Just ask Pope John Paul I - oh we can't he is dead - killed just 33 days into his papacy. I contend that this choice of the 33rd day was occultically chosen as a signature by 33° Scottish Rite P2 Masons. The Jesuit Superior-General using his loyal high-level black lodge Scottish-Rite & Memphis-Misraim Masons (some of whom are also ostensibly Catholic & SMOM), such as those of Propaganda Due & elements within the Monte Carlo Lodge would have these hits carried out if the ends justify the means.
I maintain my contention that this was the chain of command that orchestrated & executed both Diana's murder & the explosives triggered within the Twin Towers & the Pentagon on 9/11, overseen by Vatican servants George "Jesuit temporal coadjutor" Tenet & fellow Papal-alterboy Skull & Bones George W. Bush (brother of Papal servant Knight of Columbus Jeb Bush) & his Masonic partners Cheney overseeing NORAD & Rumsfeld overseeing the DOD & Roman Catholic Giuliani overseeing "Ground Zero".
The loyalties & connections of many of these parties are self-evident below. The Vatican's octopus has many arms.
Thank you -
Troy Space.
All photos below from:
http://www.spirituallysmart.com/
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Franz von Papen (Front Left) heads Catholic Mass Procession.
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Current Pope when he was in Hitler Youth
Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, papal nuncio to Germany, with Goebbels
Goebbels to the right 
The German elite in the Vatican, including Goebbels and General Steinmann.
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Jesuit Trained William (Bill) Clinton who is supposed to be Baptist
(maybe he means to say Papist) receives of the heretical 'holy eucharist'.
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Jesuit Trained, Liberal democrat, pro-abortion, Skull and Bones member John Forbes Kerry
receives heretical 'holy eucharist' which only devout practicing Catholics may partake of.
Catholic Skull and Bonesmen Bush and Kerry attending Catholic Mass on Ash Wednesday.
(Where a priest makes a mark of a cross in ashes on their foreheads.)
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House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of Calif. greets Pope Benedict XVI, as President Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice look on. (AP Photo / April 16, 2008)
| Hugo Chavez said: I am a Catholic and a Christian and a very committed Christian and I was talking to the Pope about the struggle against poverty -I call it Christ's cause. Then he was talking about the first time he had met Fidel Castro. Search Alex Jones' web site. Notice that not one word of Hugo Chavez's call for a NWO is mentioned. Why? Alex is supposed to be covering everything pertaining to a NW |
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George Bush with Cardinal Egan and former Governor of the State of New York Hugh L. Carey
Former Governor of Florida, Jeb Bush, meeting with Pope Benedict
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| If Bush is a Christian and says Jesus is his Saviour |
Former New Jersey Gov. Brendan Byrne with the Pope and future Pope
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Bush, The Catholic Papal Puppet 
Pope John Paul II with the trilateral commission 
Montini [a.k.a "pope" Paul VI] pictured giving a speech on October 4, 1965
at the United Nations Montini in his address to the United Nations, called
that godless monstrosity [The UN] "the last, best hope of mankind..."
From: guy@sainty.org
To: troy space
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:01:33 +0200
Again, I take issue with you over what knights of Malta are required to do – their oath is to support the aims of the Order; all Catholics must obey the Pope as head of the Church – your attacks on the Pope and the Church are attacks on every Catholic (which, I conclude, is your motivation here – a stark and uncompromising old-fashioned Protestant anti-Papist theme running through everything you write). I do not think you will find many modern day Catholics taking such an attitude to Protestants, or any other Christians. [Protestantism has been thoroughly infiltrated & neutralised by Jesuits & Papal-agent Masons like Billy Graham & Pat Robertson, to name two of thousands. "Protestants" that don't protest the false Christianity of the Vatican aren't Protestants]
However, where you are quite wrong is what you suppose to be the Holy See’s views about the UN. Of course the Holy See, like any half-way sensible person supports the ideals of the UN, even while it is impossible to avoid recognising that many of its instruments – because of the way committees, etc,. are divided up (such as the Human Rights Committee) are flawed – the representatives of dictatorships are regularly appointed, because of the intention to give positions to states from different regions.
Cardinal Renato Martino, who was for 13 years Permanent Observer to the UN, consistently spoke against many UN actions, particularly those leading to war, that he was the most consistent defender of the rights of minorities, that he was indefatigable in making sure that UN programmes did what they were intended in helping the less fortunate and that he was the most outspoken (and still is) voice against the Iraq war. Just google him and see what he has to say about this. Your entire thesis is without merit and, in my opinion, is motivate solely by hostility to Catholicism.
The Holy See, like Switzerland, has opted not to be a full member of the General Assembly, but in a special and unique Permanent Observer status for states that do not want to participate in UN missions – such as controversial peace keeping missions or sanctions that might hurt the poor. It does not vote in the UN. You do not seem to understand this important difference.
Again you fantasise about the status at the UN. The Order has always been very keen to get its sovereignty recognised, but the USA and the UK, China, India and various major states do not recognise it at all, France, Germany, Belgium, only recognise it in a limited way and do not recognise its sovereignty. Hence they all voted against its acceptance into the UN in the special Permanent Observer status (the secondary category of this form) that is presently accorded only otherwise to the International Committee of the Red Cross. [These are perfect illustrations of the Vatican's duplicity. It operates via many fronts & can utilize agents promoting different agendas for its planned outcome. The Vatican usually presents its open but false policy while ensuring that its secret but true policy is eventually implemented]
The Order of Malta, of course, would like to be elevated to the same category as the Holy See and Switzerland and much of is diplomatic efforts are directed to this end; it does not want to be included in the category of the ICRC. But those states which oppose it do so because they are fundamentally opposed to the idea of recognising as sovereign any body without territory or population. The argument against this is the recognition accorded the Holy See although it had no legal sovereign territory at the time by many states between 1870 and 1929, including from 1914 Great Britain. The US State Department in 1984 argued very clearly and successfully before the US Supreme Court that the sovereignty of the Holy See was sui-generis; in fact the Holy See was the originator of the very concept of international law, since it was the Papacy which developed the original concept of mediation between states. [Indeed. Always for its own totalitarian temporal agenda benefit of course]
What do you suppose the Order of Malta does; in your mind it seems to be some kind of nefarious organisation manipulating strings behind the scenes. I wish you could actually attend its functions and activities – you would then see how laughable this is. The sole subjects anyone talks about in regard to the Order are its hospitaller missions and its religious activities – if the activities of governments come up only when their activities offend Catholic teaching (on abortion, for example, or same sex marriage), or when they help or hinder the Order’s work. [Perhaps at its dinners & functions, as with Masonry, this is likely to be true. In its high-level meetings another agenda entirely is on the plate]
The fact that you find it so hard to believe there are people and organisations whose purpose is to do good and help the less fortunate says more about you than it does about the organisations you attack. Of course, with 12,000 members there are flawed people in the SMOM, there may be people who work for some intelligence agencies but that is not why they are members. It does not matter what religious group you consider you will find people doing things of which you disapprove. But that does not mean the organisation is flawed! Nor does it mean that these people, few in number, have any influence. There is nothing whatsoever in the Order’s raison d’etre that would encourage it to become involved in intelligence, which would be fatal to its attempts to obtain universal recognition of its sovereignty. That is how it has a representative to Cuba and Russia as well as Italy, Spain, Austria and would like to have relations with the USA and UK. [More often than not the power players in these countries are power players because they fall into line with the Vatican's covert (not overt) agenda. That is not to say that there aren't forces less enamoured with the Vatican & that the Vatican always gets its way - or that the Jesuits & Vatican would even consider it efficacious to do so. Clearly there are & so there is some degree of power dynamics that are outside of Rome's Hegelian dialectic strategies. Nevertheless all roads do still lead to Rome]
The fact that some senior OSS people got a Papal award is because they were Catholics – the Papal Orders as such have never ever held under the auspices of the Holy See any meetings ["never ever held under the auspices of the Holy See any meetings": "under the auspices of the Holy See" seems to be a signiciant wording. I maintain that these organisations - whether Masonic or Knighthood Orders - have compartmented inner cells, just like intelligence agencies, that shield their purpose from the Outer Portico & the Profane] and if one ever meets a member of the Papal Orders it is by accident; only a handful of countries have organisations of Papal knights and they do not include any state in the Americas (and these have one Mass a year, at which the deceased members are remembered, and a dinner or reception where people chat, as at any social occasion. Actually Donovan played a major role in defeating the Nazis, which I believe was a good thing. [OSS Director "Father" of the CIA & Papal Knight of St Gregory, William Donovan, who played his jigsaw puzzle part in creating the Big Picture]
So if you go to a Jesuit school you are automatically suspect in you eyes? This is quite deranged. [Suspect? Yes. Guilty? No. It all depends on other circumstances, connections & actions] Clearly you have never attended one or you would know that it is a school like any other and I know many lapsed Catholics who complain it was their school that drove them from the Church because of its strictness. I might have sent my children to a Jesuit school if they were like they used to be, but nowadays the Jesuits are too leftist for my taste.
Georgetown is stuffed with atheists and men and women of all faiths; Bill Clinton went there and he is hardly in the mould you would like to imagine Georgetown graduates. If you walk on to the campus and find one student who believes his school is trying to direct him into some secret conspiracy I will eat my hat. This is crazy. My complaint about Georgetown is that it is far too secularist, and allows many anti-Catholic themes to flourish – I thought you would welcome this! [I am not anti people who happen to have grown up Catholic, although circumstances permitting I will ask them some questions that may make them reflect on their understanding of Christianity. The Vatican is a political-financial-intelligence entity, an octopus that has many long arms though. The Jesuits aren't truly troubled about the flourishing of secularism, this is a mere transitional phase in its occult agenda. Getting rid of Bible-based Christianity is the Jesuits' reason for bring. What it looses with one hand it gains with another: see the illegal immigration situation that the Roman Catholic hierarchy supports to destroy the last vestiges of an America built on Protestant-based freedoms]
It is absolutely clear from what you write is that you do not believe Catholics should hold public office, that graduates of Jesuit schools and colleges should not be employed by governments, and that the Papacy is some kind of evil and malign influence trying to control the world. I find this personally so offensive and bigoted that I would ask you not to bother to send me any more of this nonsense. Your fantasy about John Paul I is such nonsense, his dear friend and secretary and other witnesses have said exactly what happened, but for you, like everything, there is a conspiracy. [Its widely acknowledged that the whole event was suspicious, from the embalming of the body before an autopsy could be done to the ridiculously conflicting stories of who found him, at what time & even what papers were in his hand. JPI had planned drastic changes in Vatican personnel due to his discovery of the money-laundering connections between the Vatican Bank (headed by Archbishop Marcinkus) & the P2 Paramasonic lodge & the Mafia (these being connected via the Jesuit-trained Michele Sindona). He had made a number of very poweful enemies within & without the Vatican] The same nonsense with Princess Diana (why would anyone want her killed, it is so stupid – and what connection does she have with the Twin Towers – I had not realised you also subscribed to the theories that this was not done by planes flying at them. I was in NY, I am a Papal knight and a knight of Malta, maybe I was involved – I also knew Princess Diana ). [Having an intimate relationship with a Muslim is a taboo that European & British royalty are not supposed to break, especially the mother of the future King of England. Four years prior to a pre-planned 9/11 & War OF Terror that relied on fear of Muslims. Rome would have been livid. Plans would have beeen made. I contend that Catholic knighthood order French intelligence elements under instructions from Rome executed the assasination] This is the stuff of the kind of tabloids one picks up at supermarket counters and read by housewives of low intelligence and modest education to explain why they are somehow not themselves given the positions they think they should have – there is a great conspiracy against them. [Diana was no "mere housewive" (not that there's anything wrong with that - different strokes, etc), but she was the target of conspiracy of that I am sure. Again, just like Pope JPI: embalmed before an autopsy could be made - TS]
GSS| From: | Guy Stair Sainty (guy@sainty.org) |
| Sent: | 27 September 2008 19:15:14 |
| To: | troy space |
I have made some grammatical corrections. I would also make some further comments about the outrageous assertions regarding the Nazis.
The idea that Hitler was a RC is incredible! [reference to the implication of three of the photos & the list accompanying them above] He was born into a Catholic family – so by the way were Martin Luther, Zwingli, Calvin and John Knox – but renounced his faith very early and was bent on destroying the Catholic Church as his own documentary testimony and that of many witnesses attests.
[Hitler was never excommunicated & thus by Church Law remained a Catholic until the day he died. Baptised & reared Catholic, an altar boy who aspired to the priesthood, happily signed the 1933 Concordat with the Catholic Church & was friendly with Pope Pius XII, the list goes on, but that's a taster]
The Catholic Church, like any large institution, cannot avoid dealing with governments, even distasteful ones; its first duty is to the Catholics of the world and to protect and help them it is often necessary to deal with governments that persecute them. This is true of any large Christian Church with missions round the world. [Duplicitous defence mechanism] I have no idea to which Church, if any, you belong [One built on faith, not of walls & on on the pronouncements of men drunk on the blood of the saints and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus] but I would bet anything that has registered as a 501 (c) iii corporation under US law, and that it functions within the law. If it does so then it is necessarily dealing with the state. [No. I live in London & even if I was in America I would not go near one of those abominable state-corrupted instituations] I suspect you may belong some kind of extremist minority sect which is more concerned with its message of hate than Christ’s message of love, in which case perhaps it has no missions to help the poor. If it did, you can bet it would have to deal with some unsavoury people in unsavoury places. [Wrong again - unless one person constitutes a "minority sect" - although by the Vatican's totalitarian standards, that would always be "extreme". The day that these missions that you refer to start dealing with the creators & causes of global misery I'll happily join forces, until then "band aid" solutions are very much part of the problem, as is ignorance in general. Love at its most efficacious also requires one to rebuke & chastize those that fearfully, selfishly or ignorantly facilitate the transformation of our world into a global hell on Earth. That is also very much part of Jesus' message]
Before WWII the Church had an official mission to Germany; there were 30 million German Catholics and it had signed a concordat to insure that Catholic schools, etc, could function legally. This agreement was quickly broken by the Nazis and by 1939 was a dead letter, but as long as the Nuncio was able to press his case the Church could go on functioning and courageous bishops such as Van Galen could use their influence against the regime. Since the Nuncio was accredited to state, he must perforce attend the state functions and meet with the head of State. Today the Nuncios have to deal with men like [SMOM Knight of Malta] Fidel Castro and his brother, and Hugo Chavez; these are Catholic countries, with large Catholic populations and the Holy See has diplomatic relations with them. [Papal servant Chavez has been photographed kissing the Pope's ring (see above) & even apparently praying to him. Chavez has called for a "new international order" (New World Order), possibly based in an internationalised Jerusalem. He is a feather of the Beast's left wing, as Bush is a feather of its right wing]
Mussolini abandoned his faith as a teenager and wrote numerous texts as a socialist newspaper editor against the Church. What he did was settle the important question regarding the Pope’s status which was welcomed by the entire Catholic world. At that date he was thought to be a potential ally to all the Western Powers. Only later, in the mid 1930s, did he turn to Hitler. [Openly anti-Masonic (as was Hitler), covertly-Masonic, Mussolini was put in & removed from power by Masonic Victor Emmanuel III & advised by Jesuit Pietro Tacchi-Venturi]
Of the list below [this is now found above], the only faithful Catholics were Salazar, Franco and Petain. Tiso was in dispute with the Holy See and the rest were lapsed. [Roman Catholic priest & Slovak President Tiso who sent the Czech Jews & Protestants to Auschwitz] One may as well condemn Judaism because many Jews were communists. [Heretical, anti-Judaism, Masonic & Sabbatean, racial Jews] The Church cannot be responsible for the fact that some of its members are sinners. Stalin had entered a seminary (at the urging of his devout mother, to study as an orthodox priest, but soon left and spent 30 years persecuting the Church. [Among his prime & achieved goals was the wiping out of Russian Orthodox Christians & Jews. It is notable to that in 1922 he readmitted the Jesuits to Russia for the first time in a century, while appearing to be anti-aristocracy by expelling the Knights of Malta five years earlier] Trotsky and many other Bolshevik leaders were Jews. [Heretical, anti-Judaism, Masonic & Sabbatean, racial Jews] The majority of the leading Nazis were born Protestants [Adolf Hitler: Roman Catholic; Joseph Goebbels: Roman Catholic; Heinrich Himmler: Roman Catholic; ...], but no-one but a fool would accuse their Churches of being pro-Nazi as a result. Are all Republicans wrong because one turns to crime, or Democrats because one is an adulterer. Etc etc. This is so idiotic. [No one is accusing all Catholics, knights or Masons of anything] The fact that the Cardinal Archbishop of New York is seen with the Mayor (I think then former Mayor) of New York is a surprise? It is supposed to prove what, exactly? That the head of the largest religious faith in the city communicates with the head of its civil government. How is this shocking or wrong? [Giuliani failed to provide firefighters & rescue workers on 9/11 with working radios, thus leading to their certain death & who pushed for a quick cleanup at the expense of finding remains, has hugely profited from his media-created myth of an image in the wake of 9/11. The intention is to bring to people's attention the fact that he defers to a spiritual hierarchical leadership - which in America is led by SMOM & Franco-Neapolitan Constantinian Knight & Archbishop of New York, Edward Cardinal Egan - that doesn't by its nature believe in the Protestant-created American freedoms of conscience, speech, & the press (all much now in tatters after years of abuse from the Bush Papal servants, Jesuit-trained Clinton, SMOM & Masonic-honoured Reagan & others back through to Red Mass attending Kennedy co-assassin Lyndon B. Johnson. Former high-level Monte Carlo lodge member Leo Zagami has charged Egan, Giuliani & fellow Monte Carlo/P2 lodge member Giorgio Hugo Balestrieri (who is the head on the Rotary Club of New York at the UN), as well as the Bush Crime Team of being key players in the orchestration & execution team that facilitated 9/11 for Rome]
When the US President comes to Rome, is it a surprise that he would want to meet the Pope, when there are more than 40 million US Catholics? And what would be accomplished by being discourteous and refusing? [The fact that is that Bush - ostensibly a Methodist Episcopalian, but really just another false Protestant, crypto-Romanist - has been photographed - see above - bowing to another man, a man who considers himself the spiritual & temporal leader of the world & in the place of Christ (the true meaning of Antichrist). This is treason and he should be charged with that crime. This member of the Bush Crime Family is a genocidal murderer & executes Rome's true policy while the Mystery Babylon entices the people of the world with her false policy]
Some of the Catholic hierarchy were incredibly foolish in the early days of Nazism; they soon learned their lessons, as did many others.
The Pope’s history with the Hitler Youth is well known. He had to join, his father was a staunch anti-Nazi and when he was able he left. This has been examined very closely by other Catholic haters like you and there is not one jot of evidence that the Pope ever in the slightest way compromised his principles. [What principles? Also: His father couldn't have been that staunch. There were resisters & none of that family were among them. Of all the candidates he was the one that was selected as Pope, which as much as anything speaks volumes about the Vatican Cardinals disregard for such matters]
I do not understand anyone, who claiming some religious allegiance as you appear to, is ready to falsify the facts, present mis-leading documents and photos as “evidence” of some invented wrongdoing, all with the intention of stirring up religious hatred. What kind of faith leads people to such a stance? ["Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?" - Matthew 27:13]
I do not understand anyone, who purporting to comprehend the international financial and banking systems, denounces [sic] wholly fictitious conspiracies by the Rothschilds and Rockefellers, who have had no real influence in either field for decades. By the standards of the great entrepreneurs and financiers of today, they aren’t even rich! [Let's take the Rothschilds here & I'll quote from Nicholas Hagger's "The Syndicate" (2004), Pp. 8-10: "Frederic Morton, author of The Rothschilds, which was commissioned by the family writes, "Today the family gooms the inaudibility and invisibility of its presence." It is concealed behind a network of merchant banks, gold dealings, investments in minerals, and land and property holdings. Under its 2003-formed Netherlands-based holding company Concordia BV, Rothschilds Continuation Holdings AG, a Swiss holding company for the Rothschild merchant banking business, was the parent of scores of industrial, commercial, mining, and tourist corporations, not one of which bears the family name. Many were accumulated during the spread of the British Empire of which they were a driving force. ... An estimate of the Rothschilds' worth? The Richest Men in the World lists generally exclude dynatic families. If they had $6b in 1850 (a low estimate), then, assuming no erosion of the base wealth, it coul have been invested to bring in a conservative range of between 4% and 8% per annum, which gives figures ranging from $1.9 trillion to $491,409 trillion (more than the world's wealth according to our estimate). Take a really conservative figure of arounfd $1 trillion. In comparison Bill Gates' worth was estimated in 2004 as $32 billion. If you consider that a little over $300b would buy every ounce of gold in every bank in the world today, and that the US national debt is currently $7.5 trillion (i.e. $7,500b), the Rothschilds' position in the financial world can be grasped."] As for the Rockefellers being Jewish (in fact they descend from staunchly protestant Dutch settlers in New York state), only a rabid anti-Semite would invent this to “prove” the kind of deranged theories that inspired Hitler, whom you continually profess to denounce. [I have never asserted that the Rockefellers are Jewish & caution those who do]
It seems to me that you are one of that sad group of people who have not really succeeded in life as they had hoped and expected, or perhaps felt entitled. Rather than look at their own failings, they instead try and explain their failure on others – like the business man who fails and blames it on “industrial espionage”. ["Industrial espionage" does happen in the real world, as do conspiracies. What kind of attempt at persuasive reasoning intelligently suggests otherwise? Far-reaching decisions made by influential men behind closed doors are conspiracies & they happen - unfortunately - every day. The standard-issue pseudo-pscychological assessment of those interested in exposing the conspiratorial web & its weavers is transparently thin sop & insubstantial fodder for the Profane] Somehow you have espoused some religious doctrine that indulges the fantasy of victimhood and you then turn to denounce those who you believe are behind this conspiracy. [Roll over Jung & tell Freud the news! ;D] One of the interesting aspects of the minority Protestant Churches is their belief that they alone represent religious orthodoxy and the one and true faith but include only a minute proportion of the World’s Christians and have to face the reality that the overwhelming majority of Christians do not follow their theology (of hate, or whatever), but instead espouse a Religious Faith which requires them to love their neighbour, to forgive their enemy, and to serve the less fortunate, the poor and the sick. [So the Word of God is a theology of hate? Rome does really hate the Bible doesn't it?] This in no way inspires this religious minority however; the less fortunate are like them, and seemingly deserve no help and can starve or suffer without anyone being concerned. [Ah... & the Roman Church, which has never ended the Inquisition, just changed its name & has never excommunicated Hitler, Mussolini or any number of its other mass-murdering (no pun intended) psychopaths has a monopoly on compassion?] Instead their efforts are turned to attacking other Christian Churches and particularly the largest, the very one whose head is the successor to St Peter to whom Our Lord have the keys of his Kingdom. [The Roman church is the head of the Babylon mystery religion, as revealed in Revelation 17 & 18 & conclusively shown by Alexander Hislop in "The Two Babylons", refutations of Jesuit Coadjutors notwithstanding. Peter never went to Rome. This is an unbiblical fiction. In Matthew 16:18 Jesus' use of the word "rock" referred to faith of the kind that Peter exhibited & his promise of "the keys of the kingdom of heaven" were for anyone who had such faith in Jesus as "the Christ, the Son of the living God."]
No, the great challenge is the supposed evil of Catholicism and the Papacy and all who support it (and even, apparently, those who have denounced it and tried to destroy it if they were born Catholics); but of course these obsessive are not even aware, apparently, that the very founders of Protestantism were all born Catholics themselves as were the ancestors of every other Protestant. [Born as slaves into an ungodly beast system that killed all true believers in Jesus Christ that knew that this faith needs no mediation by priests, like the Cathars & the Waldensians (or Vaudois)]
Your comments with these photos are so bizarre; [Not mine. They're from spiritually smart.com] you believe every head of state who visits with the Pope is somehow compromised [Especially if they bow down to him &/or kiss his ring. This is all of them, they defer to him & are thus compromised - Yes], as is the Pope in turn for receiving them. Yet the Pope is charged with the great responsibility of caring for the world’s Catholics who live under these regimes. Chavez, of course, has denounced the Church repeatedly and advocated the return to ancient Indian religions – when it suits him, and when it does not he is suddenly a Catholic again. [This is contrary rhetoric on Chavez's part. He kisses the Pope's ring & calls for a UN-led "new international order". The Pope is the UN's greatest propagandist & he too, like his servants calls for a "new world order"] Catholics believe in Redemption and forgiveness, we believe in Free Will and that we may be tempted to sin but if genuinely penitent, may be forgiven. If anyone – perhaps even you one day – turns to the Church for succour then they should be welcomed as the prodigal son returned. [I have no desire nor need for forgiveness from the Antichrist Church]
The issue of who should receive communion is hugely difficult in political contests – I personally believe, as to many Catholics and most bishops, that Catholics who openly advocate disobedience to the Church’s teachings should be denied communion; but the great difficulty of this is that it is perceived as political partisanship and at election times this is dangerous. The onus is on the communicant to come in humble grace and penitence, and it is on the non-Catholic to come, as President and Mrs Bush, with their arms crossed to receive a blessing and not communion. [A true Christian has no need of a blessing from a man, let alone a Catholic priest. George W. Bush is no Protestant & no Christian] The Priest or Bishop may have a great difficulty in turning away the penitent; but if a Catholic priest gave communion to Clinton it was because he surely believed Clinton was Catholic since it would have demonstrated such a lack of honour for the president to attempt to receive communion otherwise. Of course Clinton’s mercurial character may have led him to this dishonourable path. [A true Baptist would never partake in ritual in a Catholic church from a Catholic priest. Bill Clinton is no Baptist]
But for you, this is the “Heretical” Eucharist [Only codified in 1079] and this shows you up in your true colours. I find it personally extremely distressing when I find people who have such hatred in their hearts, it is incomprehensible that anyone holding such attitudes could believe their views consistent with a belief that they are following Christ. [I have a love of truth. That does not equate with being hateful]
I realise that I am wasting my time, however and am not so vain as to imagine what I write will have the slightest influence on you, on the lies you disseminate and the hatred you preach. [Sincere investigations, honest perceptions & the highlighting of unexposed & underexposed evidence & connections. Remarkably free of the language of hate. False & disingenuous charges] I shall pray for you and your misguided friends. [And I for you & yours - TS]
Enough.
Guy Stair Sainty
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