Consequences of Hate
In his post below David Beito quotes Franklin Roosevelt as saying "We have got to be tough with Germany and I mean the German people not just the Nazis. We either have to castrate the German people or you have to treat them in such a manner so they can't go on reproducing." This quotation has elicited two comments of defense from Craig J. Bolton. In the first he recalls “only two recorded incidents of opposition by the German people” and he ends the second one with the adage; “Ideas have consequences. Bad ideas have bad consequences.” I agree with this line and the notion expressed in the above Roosevelt comment was a bad idea with bad consequences for both Germans and Americans.
I am now in the process of reading The New Dealers’ War: FDR and the War Within World War II by Thomas J. Fleming. This book is doing something I would have thought impossible, it is lowering my opinion of FDR even further.
While Craig Bolton may or may not be correct about there being only two overt incidents of opposition to the Nazis there certainly was a great deal of high level covert support for internal regime change including a very famous assassination attempt in East Prussia. According to Fleming Admiral Wilheim Canaris head of the German Military intelligence organization, the Abwehr, met secretly in Spain, during the summer of 1943, with the heads of American and British intelligence. They hammered out a peace plan which included a cease fire and the elimination of Hitler. Roosevelt rejected this offer refusing to negotiate with “these East German Junkers” and all other overtures from Germans yearning for the Nazis’ downfall.
In fact, when Roosevelt unexpectedly announced, against the opposition of Churchill and his own military commanders, that unconditional surrender was the only acceptable end to the war, he created a great obstacle for those Germans who wished Hitler gone and the carnage over. The policy proved to be a big unifier of the Hitler’s people. We can never know if some Allied encouragement and a different set of demands might have been enough for the success of Admiral Canaris and like minded Germans in their goal of ending the war sooner. However it is not unreasonable to say that FDR’s hatred and determination to punish may very well have cost tens of thousands of Americans their lives.
- AND German AND British AND.... by Sudha Shenoy (July 3, 2006 at 4:38 AM)
- Re: AND German AND British AND.... by Jonathan Dresner (July 3, 2006 at 4:49 AM)
- Re: AND German AND British AND.... by Robert Higgs (July 3, 2006 at 12:47 PM)
- Re: AND German AND British AND.... by Keith Halderman (July 3, 2006 at 12:20 PM)
- Re: AND German AND British AND.... by Jonathan Dresner (July 4, 2006 at 5:03 PM)
- Re: AND German AND British AND.... by Robert Higgs (July 4, 2006 at 7:42 PM)
- Welllll [Part 2] by Craig J. Bolton (July 3, 2006 at 5:44 PM)
- Re: Welllll [Part 2] by Keith Halderman (July 3, 2006 at 7:28 PM)
- Re: Welllll [Part 2] by Craig J. Bolton (July 4, 2006 at 6:37 PM)
- Re: Welllll [Part 2] by Keith Halderman (July 5, 2006 at 10:33 AM)
- Conditional surrender by Robert Higgs (July 4, 2006 at 7:50 PM)
- Re: Conditional surrender by Keith Halderman (July 5, 2006 at 10:08 AM)
- Re: Conditional surrender by Craig J. Bolton (July 5, 2006 at 1:21 PM)
- Re: Conditional surrender by Robert Higgs (July 5, 2006 at 2:58 PM)
- What about Italy? by Paul Noonan (July 5, 2006 at 4:52 PM)
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FDR's attitude would be strategically critical for the Oder Neisse line, the destruction of Prussia and the expulsion of its peoples.
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3 comments:
"...In fact, when Roosevelt unexpectedly announced, against the opposition of Churchill and his own military commanders, that unconditional surrender was the only acceptable end to the war, he created a great obstacle for those Germans who wished Hitler gone and the carnage over. ..."
Absolutely correct. If you read the blog or forum post:
What about Italy? (#92111)
by Paul Noonan on July 5, 2006 at 4:52 PM
http://www.hnn.us/readcomment.php?id=92111&bheaders=1#92111
"....So, although all 3 major Axis powers were told that only unconditional surrender would be accepted from them at Casablanca, in the end only Germany actually surrendered unconditionally...."
...you perceive that the real target was Germany, and, as an onion, the destruction of Germany and of the German people contained under the superficial 'official' layer another target, the secret taarget of the final disintegration of multi-ethnic Prussia!!!
You centered another very important argument: Canaris!!! I searched through the links you gave in your message:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/canaris.html
"...Soon the Vatican began to receive regular, detailed reports of Nazi atrocities in Poland. The information had been gathered by agents of the Abwehr by order of Canaris, who passed them on to Dr. Josef Muller, a devout Catholic and a leading figure in the Catholic resistance to Hitler. And Muller got the reports safely to Rome....."
All that smells of Kreiseau (Jesuit led) circle!! See the posts in the first "13" The Un. Mind about Ledochowsky & Kreisau & post war CDU!!!
Anyway, there are some interesting particulars on the life of "Josef Muller, a devout Catholic and a leading figure in the Catholic resistance to Hitler":
"...Mueller, an opponent of Adolf Hitler, was recruited to the German resistance by Hans Oster. A Catholic, Mueller made several visits to Rome where he met Pius XII. Mueller's attempts to get help from the Pope ended in failure.
The Gestapo grew suspicious of Mueller and he was arrested on April 5, 1943. After enduring 200 interrogations, without revealing anything, he was sent to Buchenwald. Later he was moved to Dachau. Although experiencing nearly two years of starvation rations and being led to the gallows twice, Mueller was still alive when liberated by the Allies in April, 1945.
After the war Mueller became minister of justice in Bavaria. Josef Mueller died in 1979. ..."
He was the 'zip' man joining both fronts of war. Like the grandfather of Walter Veltroni, the Slovenian Ciril Kotnik who was ambassador of Monarchic anti-Nazi Yugo govt. in London to the holy see... A devouted Slovenian Catholic who kept in contact with the collaborationist priest of Gorizia/Gorica in NOrth Adratic zones.
He could have well been in good faith = convincted that the goals he was pursuing following his beliefs were not a tool used to carry out the Agenda of a power (Romanist) which was manipulating his and the one of his enemies' life.
Another interesting man was the son of a Protestant clergyman who recruited our Josef Mueller in the Abwehr intelligence. Another opponent to Hitler. It seems that the Abwehr intelligence gathered all the opponents to Hitler. To use them or to.... neutralize them? I see that the Romanist Mueller, even if after years of prisony in Lager, survived. Also Franz Halder the man who recruited Hans Oster (who recruited Josef Mueller) was a supect one and finished in Lager. But survived. Was this the probable reason: "during the First World War he was a member of the staff of the Crown Prince of Bavaria....". Another Roman Catholic??(Bavaria...). Meanwhile Hans Oster, the sone of "Protestant clergyman", he too was emprisoned in the Lager but he went: executed
Then there's another man of the Abwehr, the Prussian Hans Gisevius. He was sent to Switzerland to keep the contacts with the (Jesuit agent if I am not wrong) Allen Dulles of the Office of Strategic Services. "...When Gisevius was exposed as being involved in the July Plot in 1944 he fled to Britain. Hans Gisevius, who provided important evidence against the Nazi leaders during the Nuremberg War Trials, died in 1974....".
And so on. The true core of the Wehrmacht was a threat for the Jesuits and Rome, and for this reason they created the army of respectable delinquents called "SS" from the Roman Catholic term S.S. aka "Sanctissimus" - as the high officials had the status of Jesuit priest. The Prussian army was the true pillar of the German army and those chariots, I am talking about LOedochowsky & Pacelli, did their best efforts, with the support of many German traitor, to definitively destroy the pride of Prussia, i.e. his army, in the steppes of Russia and under the bombs of the Flying Fortresses.
May a newly born multi-ethnic Prussia stomp the Vatican, I'll be there too to do my duty!!!!!
When you start to meet Nazis & antisemite, and I was for a period of time, cause the 9-11, an anti-semite, they firstly brainwash your head with the historical anti-semite literature. An important part of it are the anti-semite booklets allegedly written by Luther (meanwhile they were a clear attempt of the Jesuits to create difficulties among the newly born 'heresy' and other 'heretic' like the Jews - when I'll have time I'll write about that). Another pillar of the anti-semite literature is the Morgenthau plan. Morgenthau was an Hofjuden assisting the Masonic Roosvelt. He was the alleged father of the Morgenthau plan aimed to totally destroy Germany after WWII and to castrate the German males (and to deportate them in Africa, as antisemite literature underlines). Henry Morgenthau jr. was son of H. M. sr., a "a businessman and United States ambassador, most famous as the American ambassador to the Ottoman Empire during the First World War. He was father of the politician Henry Morgenthau, Jr. and the grandfather of Robert M. Morgenthau, the current district attorney of New York County, and historian Barbara Tuchman..." (Wikipedia).
So the father of the father of the Morgenthau plan was present in Turkey just during the GENOCIDE OF THE ARMENIANS (=read: Orthodoxies NOT Roman Catholic Armenians - see Phelps)and helped to expose the massacre he witnessed with reports . The Morgenthau family was so a 'sensible' family as regard the religious genocides. This is, with the most probability, the reason for which Morgenthau Henry jr. was chosen to assist as Treasury minister the president Roosvelt. A man that would have reacted in the desired way hearing the news of the genocide of the Jews in Europe. In fact the 'castration plan' is a pure cretinism and went issued for propaganda questions. The Jesuits want to destroy the Protestant 'heresy' but want to preserve the enormous industrial and human potential of the German race. Like parasites the Vatikaners wanted to suck the blood of the Germany. After less than ten years it started the economical re-building and the economical boom. Germany is the steam engine of Europe, of the PAPAL europe and absolutely has not to be destroyed. The Morgenthau plan with its ridicolous "castration" of Germans, and their "expulsion to Africa", helped to cover (Jesuit/Hegelian dialectic) the true intentions of the Jesuits after the war. Meanwhile all the survived were shacked by the witnesses of the horrors (the camps, the ovens,..) they had to give some bones in the mouth of the public opinion, in order to give the impression they were 'crushing with their teeth' the criminal Nazis.
(it continues in the below comment)
When I was searching material on Henry Morgenthau sr./jr. and their direct or indiret link with the Jesuits and the Vatican, I found an interesting page on Henry sr. The page is the usual antisemite/antijews page, where the reports of Morgenthau H. sr. from Poland depicted a country not seized by the "hunt to the Jews":
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/Intl_Jew_full_version/ij40.htm
It is interesting to see how Poland was at the centre of the attention cause the immigration in America of many Polish Jews. It is interesting how this happened before the Romanist cleaning of POland during WWII. The Shabtai Zhivi sect, controlled by the Jesuits, created the Frankist sect in Poland. The Jews in Poland, ruled by Shabtai Zhivi ruled by Jesuits, had to create the "Jewish question" in Poland:
"....HENRY MORGENTHAU says (par. 7)—“The soldiers had been inflamed by the charge that the Jews were Bolsheviks, while at Lemberg it was associated with the idea that the Jews were making common cause with the Ukrainians. These excesses were, therefore, political as well as anti-Semitic in character.“
And again (par. 8)—“Just as the Jews would resent being condemned as a race for the action of a few of their co-religionists, so it would be correspondingly unfair to condemn the Polish nation as a whole for the violence committed by uncontrolled troops or local mobs. These excesses were apparently not premeditated, for if they had been part of a preconceived plan, the number of victims would have run into the thousands instead of amounting to about 280. It is believed that these excesses were the result of widespread anti-Semitic prejudice aggravated by the belief that the Jewish inhabitants were politically hostile to the Polish State.”..."
It is clear that the anti-Jewish attitude was clearly present in Poland. The Jews, through the controlled Shabtai Zhivi & Labour Masonic zionists, were used by the Jesuits to start a selection among the same Roman Catholics. As in Germany the anti-Romanists went identified for their resistance against Hitlers (and then conveniently sent not in the Lager, but to Stalingrad instead to Paris) - so happened in Poland. The Roman Catholics who exposed themselves as not warm anti-semite, went identified and consequently thrown in the Lagers with the Nazi hand of Rome. The interesting page claim that the "climate in Poland was not so bad for Jews", but the author of the page practically is not aware of what he is talking about. Jesuits wanted not an explosive civil war with pogroms towards the Jews, because the goal was not (in the '20ies and in the '30ies) the elimination of them, but the detection of the 'enemy within' the same church of Rome. Then it came the final 'hot' part of II Thirty Years war (39 - 45) and the Jews went extirpated as no more useful to Rome. It was finally the time of Prussia to be definitively destroyed, of the Protestantism to be annihilated and of the bad Catholics of Poland to be terminated, bad Catholics who, with their despise towards the antisemitism of their leaders and of Hitler, could have identified the true enemy in the Society of Jesus and the Vatican hyerarchies.
(For me this Morgenthau family is starting to smell of Shabtai & Jesuits)
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