This is a conversation from Facebook concerning Ultra Orthodox Neurotics on an Air Flight with a weird phobia against sitting next to people of the opposite sex.
To me this sort of behavior is a demonstrates of how satan infiltrates - perverts religion with satan pretending to be God, with the idea of discrediting belief in God, and how some selectively quote others to potentially twist meanings- perhaps that is why we have religious groups with such twisted thinking that they lack sufficient self control to sit near people of the opposite sex in swaths of orthodox judiasm and islam
To deny that satan gets off by at times pretending to be God is to ignore the reasons for the differences between Martin Luthers early and later writing , such as those regarding followers of various modes of judaism.
Notably a person who disagrees with me regarding the satanic infiltration of religion has to twist the meaning of what I wrote by selectively misquoting me
Ignoring that and effectively replacing it with simply Judaism is a satanic deception that allow this subversion-perversion stunting of Judaism as per satan pretending to be GodFor the record, I am half-Jewish, with a jewish father and a Maryland Scott-Deutsch ancestry Protestant Christian ex Roman Catholic Mom.
I should have wrote:
Ignoring that and effectively replacing it with simply Judaism, is a satanic deception that allow this subversion-perversion stunting of Judaism as per satan pretending to be God
Yet I was quoted as:
"Judaism is a satanic deception that allow this subversion-perversion stunting of Judaism as per satan pretending to be God".
Daniel P Faigin One of our Rabbi's posted on Facebook about this incident, and was dismayed. This is yet another case where we must remember that the fundamentalists are not representative of the whole: although all ultra-Orthodox (Charedi) are Jews, not all Jews hold...See More
jewishwomenwatching.com
Laure Miller This could have been handled so simply. Put all the ultra-orthodox men in a block of seats at the back, and move the women to first class.
- Daniel P Faigin Douglas - No, it isn't -- either in the Christian view of Satan or the traditional Jewish view of ha-Satan. Rather, Ultra-Orthodox can be characterized with two words: literalism and fences. Literalism, in the sense that they believe the Torah, Talmud,...See More
The S.C.J FAQ and Reading Lists were initially...shamash.org - Douglas Andrew Willinger I respectfully disagree- their form of Judaism is satanic and at best quite obsolete. No self respecting person should follow such religious concepts, and such mentality does not represent Judaism per se, not is it confined to Jewish people. The lat...See More
- el P Faigin How is it Satanic? Satanic implies the inclination to do evil, and with your statement, you're saying that Judaism is evil (as the basic religious concepts are the same between Orthodox and the more progressive movements). The mentality of Orthodox is overly strict but no more strict then you see with Fundamentalist Chrisstian sects. As for what satan is like, see:
Judaism does not believe in the devil, but we do believe...shamash.org 
Veronica Hearney They have the money!!! They should have booked a private plane!!! Problem solved!!!- Veronica Hearney Yup.... think of it... all the welfare money they take from us tax payers. Many of them are on welfare. Look it up.
- Douglas Andrew Willinger *their form of Judaism* - did not my words I wrote appear on your screen? Ignoring that and effectively replacing it with simply Judaism is a satanic deception that allow this subversion-perversion stunting of Judaism as per satan pretending to be God
- Douglas Andrew Willinger The comment of Daniel P Faigin that I responded to appears to have been erased.
- Daniel P Faigin Veronica -- I'm disturbed by your use of the word "them", as it seems to be leading into the stereotype that "all Jews have money", or as you wrote, "the welfare money they take from us as taxpayers". If they are on welfare, they are on it just as legally as any other family on welfare, under the same rules. Think carefully about how you are saying things, for I'm sure you don't mean the potential implications.
- Douglas Andrew Willinger 'Christianity' also has its share of demonic possession-influence- i do not condemn or criticize all Jews or forms of Judaism, nor all Christian or forms of Christianity.
- Daniel P Faigin Douglas - I have no idea what you are saying with "Judaism is a satanic deception that allow this subversion-perversion stunting of Judaism as per satan pretending to be God". Ultra-Orthodox Jews (the preferred term is Cheredi, "Trembling before God") ...See More
- Douglas Andrew Willinger I should have placed a comma between Judiasm and is a satanic deception- my error
- Daniel P Faigin Alas, Douglas, that doesn't solve the parsing problem (and I don't see that any of my comments have been deleted). As for demonic possession -- given that I don't believe in demonic possession and that concept, it is hard for me to see it that way. But misguided or misinterpreting I"ll give you (whatever the source). I just don't see it as Satanic, under the conventional interpretation of that word.
- Douglas Andrew Willinger "and not crossing them for fear of not getting into heaven. "
That is a product of Romanism that I have written about:...See More
The Counter Reformation of the Vatican's Jesuit Order...continuingcounterreformation.blogspot.com|By Douglas Andrew Willinger - Douglas Andrew Willinger This is the comment that no longer appeared on my screen:
Daniel wrote: "How is it Satanic? Satanic implies the inclination to do evil, and with your statement, you're saying that Judaism is evil (as the basic religious concepts are the same between O...See More
Judaism does not believe in the devil, but we do believe in Satan (who more properly should be called "the Satan"). As this demonstrates, the Jewish view of Satan is very different than the Christian one. Here's a summary of the Jewish view; you can also find information at Alyza (Gretchen) Shapiro'…shamash.org - Daniel P Faigin If those are your views, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, as we come from very different religious views and backgrounds. I, from a progressive Judaism view, and you from a more traditional Christian view. (As for the comment that no longer appeared on your screen, that's odd as it appears on mine).
- Douglas Andrew Willinger The issue of the comma does affect the meaning of what I was writing- I do not condemn Judaism per se but rather sub elements-subsets etc. That you do not acknowledge demonic possession means that we have something that we disagree.
- Douglas Andrew Willinger The issue of commas, and that ancient religious texts were written on parchments that have pieces missing is a matter in need of further study that affect precise meanings.
- Daniel P Faigin And, if we're talking understanding precise meaning, understanding writings written without vowels (meaning potentially multiple words match) in multiple languages. Trying to establish precise meanings of documents written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, a...See More
- Veronica Hearney I do my research Daniel Faigin. If you live in NY, take a drive to Kiryas Joel outside Monroe, NY which is an hour north of NYC. There you will find a village that is occupied and controlled by Hasidic Jews. 90 percent of them are on welfare, straining the county's resources and they want to expand. I just don't think that's fair. I have more admiration for the hard working Jewish man then one who expects the county to give him welfare. And mind you, I said those who were on welfare, I didn't mention the hard working man.
- Daniel P Faigin My comment is more why is the Orthodox family on welfare with 15 kids any worse than the Christian family on welfare with 15 kids or the Black family or the Hispanic family. Talking about the specifically *Jewish* aspect is the problem. Have respect for the hard working parent. But when you specifically target a group as "straining the county's resources", there is a problem. [The problem is people who create large families they cannot afford, for whatever reason, although often (and I'm not saying this is you) those who bemoan the large families are the ones who equally bemoan any forms of family planning efforts]
- Daniel P Faigin As a PS, I'm not saying I agree with what many of the Orthodox are doing in communities in New York. The other day, there was a great This American Life podcast ( http://www.thisamericanlife.org/.../a-not-so-simple-majority ) whi...See More
We take it for granted that the majority calls the shots....thisamericanlife.org 
Otto Yamamoto Funny thing about that, Kiryas Joel was at the centre of some controversy a few years ago, as they wanted to establish their own schooling programme for mentally handicapped children, but they couldn't get State funding because it would be subsidising a religious programme. This would have *decreased* the 'burden' on Orange County services. Like them or no(and it really depends on who you run into), some of the Chasidim do make significant efforts to tend to their own social welfare outside the established system.
Zhara Um Nikko Funny thing about this thread - the whole discussion of whether or not the misogynistic discrimination displayed by these individuals is acceptable due to religious excuses has been hijacked by people posting exaggerated stereotypical put downs of jews in general ("they have all the money") - so utterly off topic, exaggerated, and distracting that you have to wonder if these aren't plants trying to disarm any rational discussion of the real topic:
Is discrimination against women ever ok?
Can we justify it as a religious right?
It's not about money, it's not about anti-semitism, it's about misogyny.
Lisa Organa Solo well, I don't want them sitting next to me either, whats the big deal just give them seating next to each other, this is the airlines fault. I booked flights with friends with the same credit card and we were not seated together, the airlines said it was an extra charge for that, the airlines are looking for the extra dollars, this is unnerving bullshit.- Lisa Organa Solo o and I am a Jewish person, just a regular kind of Jew, not on welfare, not believing in Satan, you guys are silly.
- Daniel P Faigin Zhara: The question is a little different than you think, as misogyny is not it what is behind the O attitudes. Rather, (a) they see distinctly different roles for the two sexes (where as modern society is more egalitarian), and (b) [and this is common with most fundamentalist groups] they believe they cannot control their urges around women other than their wives. It is the latter that most people have trouble with, but it isn't msyogyny. [There's also outdated attitudes as seen in the problem of the Agunah, and there there is some mysogyny, but it is on the level of the individual, not the religion]
- Otto Yamamoto Also there's the conflict between the 'righteous' and 'non righteous'. My girlfriend is not awfully fond of the Chasidim in the main: she asks what makes them more righteous than her.
- Daniel P Faigin Again, that's a Fundamentalism problem -- you have the same thing often with Christians (who think everyone else is going to hell), Fundamentalist Muslims (who think everyone else is...) and Rush Limbaugh (who knows everyone else is going to ...)
Erik Greenberg Daniel P Faigin, your charitable interpretation of a kind of thinking that has, in many cases, hardened into misogyny, ignores the only point worth considering in this discussion. If the Haredi wish to live in a world in which their wishes are fully respected, then they must surround themselves with other Haredim, as they often do. But once they cross that threshold and enter into modernity, their preferences for segregation are no longer valid or applicable. Put simply, you don't like it, either buy your own plane or don't fly. This whole affair is despicable and the more Israeli and American Jews excuse or coddle this kind of behavior, the more problematic it becomes. It is not Satanic, of course, as your rather intemperate friend suggests, but this particular brand of Ultra Orthodox thinking has no place in contemporary society.- Laure Miller And if these men feel they cannot control themselves, why do they allow themselves the freedom of leaving their houses and moving unfettered in public?
- Daniel P Faigin Oh, Erik, I'll agree with you there. When they go out into the modern world, they need to adapt to the modern world (just like the Amish or any other group with a specific custom set). I just strive to understand why they believe what they believe, eve...See More
- Zhara Um Nikko Daniel P Faigin says it's not about misogyny, it's just that those guys believe in discriminating against women.
er......See More - Erik Greenberg I am quite familiar with the This American Life piece. The whole to do is a shanda. And it's not just about optics, but also righteousness. The work of tikun olam means to heal the world, the whole world, and not just the corners you favor. When yo...See More
- Laure Miller I cannot imagine embracing a religion/philosophy that made me declare to the world at large that I was somewhat less than an animal in terms of self-control.
Golly gee whiz, I am so righteous that I am barely one step removed from a cannibalistic rapist ~insert wild howling here~ and the only thing that keeps you safe from my vile depravity is staying far away from me because gawd is love and he wrote this BOOK.
Oh, how much more reasonable can you get. - Daniel P Faigin No, I didn't quite say that. The following FAQ question might answer it. Also, note that I"m not saying I agree with the Orthodox approach -- I don't (which is one reason I'm not Orthodox). But I do strive to understand it so that I can discuss it with them. http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/08-04.html . You might also look at some of the other questions in that FAQ section: http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/08-index.html . The whole issue is a complex one.
- Daniel P Faigin Erik - I agree with you 100% regarding the TAL piece. I suggested that it would make a great discussion piece for a post-confirmation class for that very reason.
- Douglas Andrew Willinger I wrote:
Ignoring that and effectively replacing it with simply Judaism is a satanic deception that allow this subversion-perversion stunting of Judaism as per satan pretending to be God
I should have wrote:
Ignoring that and effectively replacing it with simply Judaism, is a satanic deception that allow this subversion-perversion stunting of Judaism as per satan pretending to be God
Yet I was quoted as:
"Judaism is a satanic deception that allow this subversion-perversion stunting of Judaism as per satan pretending to be God".
Interesting! That can provide an classic example of how writing are misinterpreted.
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